(Possible) HID Glare Solution

[Harbinger]

Sorry for the incomplete thread title I accidentally elbowed my keyboard. Mods if you can Name it to "(Possible) HID Glare solution"

I have 2 ballasts just collecting dust so I thought of figuring out if there could be a simple cheap solution in not blinding oncoming traffic. Little did I know that my innocent foglight HIDs were blinding the crap out of everyone...I thought I could position them as low as possible but the reflector was scattering the beam.

After some very quick research I found a guy on you tube that created a anti glare shield for the xenon HID bulb. I'm gonna try this out but I'll need to grab a pair of aftermarket headlights incase I screw up royally. Not sure if this can be done for the 800 series foglight xenon bulb since it is quite a tight fit. Will keep everyone posted.

5169


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XFYbJn68U0

[bluetoy]

Good Idea. I doubt 99% of all people who put HID bulbs in non HID housing give a crap about how much glare they produce. After all it is Illegal to put HID's in regular housings in the first place.

[Scrape]

Interesting that you won't consider LED lighting.

[Harbinger]

Interesting that you won't consider LED lighting.
I've read that the LEDs throw light all over the place like hids and ultimately don't even illuminate as well as standard halogens.

Maybe things changed over the few months since I checked info on it. If you have any good links I wouldn't mind looking into it.

[Harbinger]

Good Idea. I doubt 99% of all people who put HID bulbs in non HID housing give a crap about how much glare they produce. After all it is Illegal to put HID's in regular housings in the first place.
It's illegal because the bulb is not properly shielded or designed to be placed in the reflectors. Had they properly shielded and made it fit correctly it would scatter less light and provide proper illumination. This is my thoughts. Also I hate those blue hids I prefer the soft white or even close to the halogen hue but with greater visibility.

I do not want to be that asshole that blinds everyone and I have been completely blinded before and it was pretty scary.

Hope this modification fixes the glare and legalizes it

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[TheMustangShow]

Good Idea. I doubt 99% of all people who put HID bulbs in non HID housing give a crap about how much glare they produce. After all it is Illegal to put HID's in regular housings in the first place.

+1

The really bright lights are fuckin' annoying and totally unnecessary in the GTA and places with street lights.

Unless you live in the Hinterland, where it actually gets dark, I don't know why you would need these really bright lights?

Those blue and pink lights are a total FAIL too.

[Spock]

Im willing to bet the reflector cone melts even faster then all the other ones I've seen with that idea

[SteveEH]

PnP HIDs and LEDs glare like no tomorrow, and DO NOT provide any more light then a regular halogen, you are actually decreasing visibility because you are not focusing where you need to be, which is down the road, instead of where all the light is, directly in front of the car. To put it in short, our eyes will focus on light, it's just human nature, why do you think, when driving on a back road and a car approaches, all you see is headlights? That's because that is where our eyes are focusing. Now imagine driving down that same road and meeting someone with glaring headlights, how much worse that is? Now imagine looking into the sun, know that feeling when you suddenly can't see for a few seconds? That's how it feels approaching PnP HIDs and PnP LEDs. If you want to see better in ANY vehicle, I recommend quality halogen bulbs, like Phillips Vision series, including "Vision", "Vision Plus", and "X-treme Vision". Now these can be costly, but these are some of the best bulbs available for the best lighting output. If you STILL feel like you cannot see on the road, I highly recommend a HID Projector Retrofit. Any other questions, feel free to PM me since I am hardly on this forum, but might check in a bit here and there.

[Harbinger]

PnP HIDs and LEDs glare like no tomorrow, and DO NOT provide any more light then a regular halogen, you are actually decreasing visibility because you are not focusing where you need to be, which is down the road, instead of where all the light is, directly in front of the car. To put it in short, our eyes will focus on light, it's just human nature, why do you think, when driving on a back road and a car approaches, all you see is headlights? That's because that is where our eyes are focusing. Now imagine driving down that same road and meeting someone with glaring headlights, how much worse that is? Now imagine looking into the sun, know that feeling when you suddenly can't see for a few seconds? That's how it feels approaching PnP HIDs and PnP LEDs. If you want to see better in ANY vehicle, I recommend quality halogen bulbs, like Phillips Vision series, including "Vision", "Vision Plus", and "X-treme Vision". Now these can be costly, but these are some of the best bulbs available for the best lighting output. If you STILL feel like you cannot see on the road, I highly recommend a HID Projector Retrofit. Any other questions, feel free to PM me since I am hardly on this forum, but might check in a bit here and there.
Good expansion. That's why I put them at the time in my fog lights so I can at least turn it off in the city. I drive quite a bit from Woodstock and Orangeville. Some of the country roads have zero lighting. Just wanted a solution to reduce glare without spending 700

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[SteveEH]

Good expansion. That's why I put them at the time in my fog lights so I can at least turn it off in the city. I drive quite a bit from Woodstock and Orangeville. Some of the country roads have zero lighting. Just wanted a solution to reduce glare without spending 700

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The best option to not blinding anybody even on back roads, is to use your high beams. Believe me, I had the 13/14 Mustang Fog lights in my car, and while they are really good for driving around town, they SUCKED while driving in the country compared to my high beams. Reason because the high beams are the way they are, is so that you are focusing down the road, instead of right in front of your car, so when you flick your high beams, they focus more light down the road, more then in front of you, which increase visibility at distances.

[SteveEH]

Here is the 13/14 Mustang LED Fog lights retrofitted into my 05, and while they are wide, they don't throw the light, like my high beams do. Reason I went with these, is because I got them cheap, and they have a decent cutoff on them, so they didn't blind so many drivers on the road. This was before I aimed them, and tinted them yellow.
http://i.imgur.com/mnskdWTh.jpg

[Harbinger]

Here is the 13/14 Mustang LED Fog lights retrofitted into my 05, and while they are wide, they don't throw the light, like my high beams do. Reason I went with these, is because I got them cheap, and they have a decent cutoff on them, so they didn't blind so many drivers on the road. This was before I aimed them, and tinted them yellow.
http://i.imgur.com/mnskdWTh.jpg
Are the led fog lights in projector housings?

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[tulowd]

Fog lights are designed to illuminate the area directly in front and slightly around the car, thus they are mounted low on the vehicle.
Regular headlights and high beams have a different design criteria and purpose, that's why they are mounted higher up.
Light from above is less blinding than from below, shining up. Think about being in the audience instead of onstage, lol.

This means in all cases the reflectors, housings, lenses and locations on the car are designed to work with a certain lamp/bulb/lightsource in order to produce the beam spread and focal point(s) required. Changing a couple of things and pretending to suddenly become a lighting designer is funny; but that is how the "aftermarket" lighting business presents itself in most cases. Having said that, lots of OEM lights are a fail, which is really disappointing since it is a two way safety issue. (vehicle and oncoming)

I agree with utilizing high end halogen or zenon ( which run cooler) lamps that are designed to work within that particular housing; easy upgrade that works.

When retrofitting HID or LED, I would doubt they can be optimized, since the compromise is fitting them into an existing housing, with a shape and reflector design that came from a halogen application. Whatever setup is installed, the housing also needs to be able to dissipate whatever (excess) heat is now created. Running HID's or LED"s at higher than designed temperatures will shorten their life span (obviously) and can/may also change the colour rendering and the light output.

Human vision is drawn to light, we also do not perceive all visible light at the same intensity - we are more sensitive to light at 5000k(blue) to 6500k (daylight) as a survival mechanism. This is why parking garages typically use 5000k coloured lamps; less wattage, higher perceived light levels. Similar to our hearing, which is most sensitive at around 1kHz; somewhere around the sound of a crying baby.

There were some good technical papers floating around about this topic - either Audi or Hella (the lighting mfr) produced them a couple of years ago when they were investigating LED high beams that would shut off some of the array in order to protect oncoming traffic from glare; also the moving headlights were discussed.

Very interesting topic, typically with a lack of real knowledge floating around the car hobby.

[Harbinger]

Fog lights are designed to illuminate the area directly in front and slightly around the car, thus they are mounted low on the vehicle.
Regular headlights and high beams have a different design criteria and purpose, that's why they are mounted higher up.
Light from above is less blinding than from below, shining up. Think about being in the audience instead of onstage, lol.

This means in all cases the reflectors, housings, lenses and locations on the car are designed to work with a certain lamp/bulb/lightsource in order to produce the beam spread and focal point(s) required. Changing a couple of things and pretending to suddenly become a lighting designer is funny; but that is how the "aftermarket" lighting business presents itself in most cases. Having said that, lots of OEM lights are a fail, which is really disappointing since it is a two way safety issue. (vehicle and oncoming)

I agree with utilizing high end halogen or zenon ( which run cooler) lamps that are designed to work within that particular housing; easy upgrade that works.

When retrofitting HID or LED, I would doubt they can be optimized, since the compromise is fitting them into an existing housing, with a shape and reflector design that came from a halogen application. Whatever setup is installed, the housing also needs to be able to dissipate whatever (excess) heat is now created. Running HID's or LED"s at higher than designed temperatures will shorten their life span (obviously) and can/may also change the colour rendering and the light output.


I understand what you're saying but I'd like to think there is a way to optimize hid bulbs.

For example I have the 35watt kit 4300k 800 bulb style for my fog lights. It's possible that I can rig the bulb to concentrate light more to the front in the hopes of helping me see in the countryside. Since its fog lights I have more control when I need to turn it off so they don't blind others. But I still want to experiment in trying to make it them safer. Worst case, I take the darn things off.

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[SteveEH]

Well said Tulowd, Most housings that can use a retrofit can dissipate heat pretty good, that is why most headlights have vents on them, to allow heat and moisture out, and not let anything in. I do also agree that most OEM systems to fail when it comes to lighting output, but once tuned, can be very good, some of the best projectors come on some higher end cars, but not all higher end cars have good projectors, just a few.

Harbringer, the fog lights are projected so they create a cutoff, while they are not as sharp as a HID Retrofit, they still blind less then regular fog lights, I loved them for the amount of times I actually used them. The best way to optimize HID bulbs is to project them down the road using a HID projector, instead of trying to come up with solutions to optimize them in Halogen/Reflector housings. There are some headlights out there that can project HID bulbs using a reflector housing, but still glare, just not as bad as PnP kits, for example, the ones often seen on the 05-09 GT/CS, Bullitt, Saleen, and GT500s use a reflector based HID system.

[Harbinger]

Well said Tulowd, Most housings that can use a retrofit can dissipate heat pretty good, that is why most headlights have vents on them, to allow heat and moisture out, and not let anything in. I do also agree that most OEM systems to fail when it comes to lighting output, but once tuned, can be very good, some of the best projectors come on some higher end cars, but not all higher end cars have good projectors, just a few.

Harbringer, the fog lights are projected so they create a cutoff, while they are not as sharp as a HID Retrofit, they still blind less then regular fog lights, I loved them for the amount of times I actually used them. The best way to optimize HID bulbs is to project them down the road using a HID projector, instead of trying to come up with solutions to optimize them in Halogen/Reflector housings. There are some headlights out there that can project HID bulbs using a reflector housing, but still glare, just not as bad as PnP kits, for example, the ones often seen on the 05-09 GT/CS, Bullitt, Saleen, and GT500s use a reflector based HID system.


Well said Tulowd, Most housings that can use a retrofit can dissipate heat pretty good, that is why most headlights have vents on them, to allow heat and moisture out, and not let anything in. I do also agree that most OEM systems to fail when it comes to lighting output, but once tuned, can be very good, some of the best projectors come on some higher end cars, but not all higher end cars have good projectors, just a few.

Harbringer, the fog lights are projected so they create a cutoff, while they are not as sharp as a HID Retrofit, they still blind less then regular fog lights, I loved them for the amount of times I actually used them. The best way to optimize HID bulbs is to project them down the road using a HID projector, instead of trying to come up with solutions to optimize them in Halogen/Reflector housings. There are some headlights out there that can project HID bulbs using a reflector housing, but still glare, just not as bad as PnP kits, for example, the ones often seen on the 05-09 GT/CS, Bullitt, Saleen, and GT500s use a reflector based HID system.
What about these?


http://www.mrbodykit.com/images/99-PARTS/fogs99prolarge.jpg

[SteveEH]

What about these?

Personally, I will never buy projectors off ebay, for the sole reason, they suck. to be honest, they probably would be worst then the current fog lights you have.

[RedSN]

Fog lights are designed to illuminate the area directly in front and slightly around the car, thus they are mounted low on the vehicle.

You forgot: ...designed to illuminate the area directly in front and slightly around the car, in the fog, at night.

I've never understood peoples fascination with driving all the time with the fog lights on. During all my time driving, I can count the number of times on one hand that I have had to turn the fog light on.

Besides ....fog lights are where the brake cooling ducts go ;)

[tulowd]

You forgot: ...designed to illuminate the area directly in front and slightly around the car, in the fog, at night.

I've never understood peoples fascination with driving all the time with the fog lights on. During all my time driving, I can count the number of times on one hand that I have had to turn the fog light on.

Besides ....fog lights are where the brake cooling ducts go ;)

Lol yes, also, since we don't live in the Scottish or Irish moors, fog lights are like stripes.

The other thing is, why would you mount lights for distance low on the car? The chance of glare is increased dramatically, especially if there is not very specific cutoff.

Lights mounted higher shining down would make a lot more sense from a triangulation and cut off perspective.

[Harbinger]

Lol yes, also, since we don't live in the Scottish or Irish moors, fog lights are like stripes.

The other thing is, why would you mount lights for distance low on the car? The chance of glare is increased dramatically, especially if there is not very specific cutoff.

Lights mounted higher shining down would make a lot more sense from a triangulation and cut off perspective.
Didn't think about that. I'll consider all the options.

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