Fox front end set up

[1BAD92LX]

My email to maximum motorsports

Hello, I have a 1992 mustang 5L with your maximum grip box (stock front and
rear sway bar) Just have a few question about front end alignment set up.
car is mostly street driven, but do road course it often. Bilstien HD shocks
and struts. 350 lbs front springs and 225 lbs rear springs.. 245/45/17 tires
1. is there a ride height that the suspesion works best at? car now,
measured from ground to fender is 26" front, 26 3/4" rear
2. front control arm mounting holes, upper or lower? currently in upper holes
3. base toe setting? currently running 0 toe, 3.5 degrees caster, -1.8 degrees camber
4. when setting bump steer, I know zero change is best but is it better to
toe in or out in compression Thanks for your help, Brad

Maximum motorsports reply

Hey there Brad,

1...
-I would recommend bringing the front end up 3/4 of an inch to 1 inch.
-The rear is good where it's at.

2...
-Stick with the Upper Holes

3...
-Zero Toe is a good base setting. Street cars are usually slightly toed in,
track cars are slightly toed out. A slight toe out will increase your turn
in response, but also increase your tire wear for street driving.
-Around 6 degrees of caster would be nice, but you will get a slight
increase in steering effort.
-Camber will be decided by what tires you're running. The softer the
sidewall, the more the tire leans over in the corner, the more camber you
need to maintain a good contact patch. On most of our track based cars we
will run about 3 degrees of negative camber.

4...
-As you said, zero is always the best in the front. But if you can't get
there, a slight toe in would be nice under compression.

Thanks,
Kolton Sinclaire
MM R&D Technician

[ZR]

MM is starting to piss me off with inconsistent tech on which control arm holes to use. Started off in upper holes as per phone conversation when I initially purchased / installed. Called last year to discuss coil overs spring rates resulted in never ever ever
use the upper holes unless mega lowered so I moved them back down along with bringing ride height back up all round.

[ZR]

Current instructions / Fox

Control Arm LocationThe MM K-member has two sets of mounting holes for the front control arms. The lower set is raised 1 inch from the stock location. These holes should be used if the car is lowered 1 - 2 inches. The upper set of holes is raised 2 inches from the stock location. If the vehicle is lowered more than 2 inches, we recommend using the upper set of holes.

[Jack Hidley]

ZR,

The text you posted regarding which set of k-member holes to mount the FCAs in has been in the MM k-member installation instructions for years.

I don't know who you spoke with the second time on the phone. If you remember, please post it here.

One of the difficulties doing tech support is that people contact us and give different information. When this happens, they are probably going to get a different answer, even if they deal with the same person both times. Exactly which set of holes are the optimum ones to use on any given car requires about 20 pieces of information to be given. In 80% of the cases, this can be reduced to a simple ride height measurement change from stock. Many people we talk to say that their Mustang is barely lowered. Then when they send in a photo, we see that it is lowered 3.5" from stock. Some employees here, from time to time, second guess what the customer tells them. I realize that this shouldn't happen, but some things are out of my control. I don't know if any of this is what happened to you. I hope that this explains some of what goes on.

With regards to Kolton's comments above. I would not change the front ride height. The car is currently lowered 2" in front, which is fine.

When bumpsteering the front of a Mustang, the curve should err in the direction of bump (compression) toe out. This will generate roll understeer.

[ZR]

Appreciate your chiming in Jack. When reading, please keep in mind how much I respect the product and how well they perform.
You'll find the number of members we have running Maximum suspension here is significant. Yes everything from maybe just a set of lower rear arms, rack bushings and a steering shaft + a brace or two, to several with torque arms and panhards and a couple running pretty much every part you make. I know you'd be hard pressed to find anyone dissatisfied with any of the products or their performance. Speaking strictly from those I have first hand knowledge of (including my own), only downfall to the product experience has been when seeking advice on either base set up or what springs are best suited. I can appreciate that in many cases it's a customer not giving the correct or full info, in the ones I know of, that was not the case.

[Speedtospare]

I think a "number" of us is an understatement. Anyone who road races here has MM items (even us drag guys). Rick is the poster boy for MM parts lol

[1BAD92LX]

So if it ain't broke........ leave it alone?

[tulowd]

So if it ain't broke........ leave it alone?

I am available to beat on the coupe until something breaks......not sure the vert will be ready by track day.....:)

[1BAD92LX]

It will be like slow motion compared to your car, you know first hand.

[tulowd]

as I continue to get older and my vision, reaction times and bladder begin to fail, track time in anything with 4 wheels feels like the Millenium Falcon just ignited.....


BTW - your Fox is still the standard by which any street legal track car I have ever driven should be judged, in my humble opinion. So much car and completely in it's element...willingly.

Mine, not so much.

[ZR]

So if it ain't broke........ leave it alone?

I'd think so Brad, could try just a hair toe out n see how it likes it.

[Jack Hidley]

Brad,

Yes, leave it alone.

Rick,

I spoke with Kolton about the e-mail. He just had a brain fart on the ride height numbers. We unexpectedly had an employee leave on 1/1, so all of us are massively over worked at the moment.

On the subject of spring recommendations. This is one of the very difficult jobs that we have. Part of the problem is that we offer a lot of options. This enables the customer to potentially get the perfect combination for their needs. Many other Mustang shops offer maybe three spring options. Street, sport and race. They automatically slot you into one of these three slots regardless of what other parts your car has on it. Having a lot of options is both good and bad. It is one of the reasons that we don't push adjustable dampers for instance. We find that many customers are just overwhelmed with the number of possible adjustment permutations. This enables them to completely screw up the car.

Take a look at the link below.

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/Spring-Rate-Recommendation-Request.aspx

This is the questionnaire we have customers answer when they want a coilover spring rate recommendation. About 40 questions. All of it matters. Once we have this data, I put these answers into four different spreadsheets. From this I can calculate what the optimal spring rates for the car are.

This questionnaire is relatively new. In the past many customers have not been willing to supply all of the information we need. The questionnaire was developed in response to various problems, such as customers getting different recommendations from different people at MM. It helps get us all of the information that we need. If a customer leaves parts blank, we won't give them a recommendation. Hopefully this will help quite a bit.

[ZR]

Questionnaire looks like a step in the right direction, kudos. I answered a bunch of question, but not nearly to that level of detail.

[ZR]

as I continue to get older and my vision, reaction times and bladder begin to fail, track time in anything with 4 wheels feels like the Millenium Falcon just ignited.....


BTW - your Fox is still the standard by which any street legal track car I have ever driven should be judged, in my humble opinion. So much car and completely in it's element...willingly.

Mine, not so much.

Between how well Brads car handles + how smoothly he drives, poster child for how it's suppose to be done. I'd put Dave's Mach and his stick handling at the exact same level.
Hope Brad continues to doddle on adding more h/p, gives the rest of us a chance, even though it's a remote one.