Timing issue

[1quikgt]

I've just finished installing a new h/c/i on my 95 mustang and I'm trying to set the timing. I have the #1 piston at tdc, the timing mark on the balancer is set to 10*, the distributor rotor is pointing to number and the spout connector is removed. We can get the car to start but it runs really rough like the timing is off and when we go to adjust it the car dies and then we have a hard time starting it again without going back and starting the whole process. I feel like we're missing a step somewhere but all my research shows that we're on the right track. Can anyone offer some ideas or assistance?

[ZR]

Do you have a timing light to confirm once started?
If not light, have you run with spout in place?
Assume you've confirmed firing order is correct?

[ZR]

If non stock injectors / MAF, calibrated or running a chip?

[ZR]

Adjustable or bolt down rockers?
Confirm correct lifter preload?

[Frankie]

Maybe distributor is stabbed a full turn out?

[Parkway Ford Lincoln SVT]

Does the car still have the original harmonic damper? If so, could the bonding from the outer section to the hub be letting go, allowing it to move in relation to the crank? That would give you a false reading for crank position obviously when trying to read the timing.

[1quikgt]

Yes we have tried with the spout in place, firing order has been checked and rechecked. Injectors are 30# and maf is calibrated for 30#. The rockers are comp cam stud mount and were installed according to their directions. It is the original damper and it does not look like the bonding is separating. We've moved the distributor rotor in multiple directions so I'm not sure what is meant by stabbed a full turn out?

[svo1990mustang]

Shot in the dark, did you happen to put a NON H.O. cam in an H.O. motor?

Is the firing order correct?

[tulowd]

Sure sounds like 2 spark plug wires are backwards or the firing order is snafu - check this out:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg582/tulowd/Tech%20Stuff/FordV8firingpics_zpsnt199qyg.jpg


next time you get it started, try rotating the distributor back and forth to see if you can get it to idle - once you do, as the idle speed increases, you are advancing the timing.

[ZR]

What firing order are you using?
Positive the camshaft matches? Meaning, just because it's a roller, does not guarantee it's HO firing order (cams are made both ways).

[Parkway Ford Lincoln SVT]

Sure sounds like 2 spark plug wires are backwards or the firing order is snafu - check this out:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg582/tulowd/Tech%20Stuff/FordV8firingpics_zpsnt199qyg.jpg


next time you get it started, try rotating the distributor back and forth to see if you can get it to idle - once you do, as the idle speed increases, you are advancing the timing.


Where is that sourced from? (Doesn't look right)

Most Ford pushrod V8s are either 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8, or 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8

[tulowd]

Ooops, looks like only half of it is right.

Here is a link with MSD info as well as commentary showing some of MSD data is wrong.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2373211&page=all

The cam card should have the correct firing order printed on it.

[1quikgt]

Camshaft is a tfs stage 1 so it's the 1-3-7... firing order which I have double checked. I'll try tulowds suggestion of rotating the distributor. Hopefully that works.

[Frankie]

Yes we have tried with the spout in place, firing order has been checked and rechecked. Injectors are 30# and maf is calibrated for 30#. The rockers are comp cam stud mount and were installed according to their directions. It is the original damper and it does not look like the bonding is separating. We've moved the distributor rotor in multiple directions so I'm not sure what is meant by stabbed a full turn out?

The cam turns twice for every turn of the crank.
if you stab the distributor when #1 is at tdc after the exhaust stroke strange things happen.
Usually bucks and backfires - if it runs are all.

[ZR]

What procedure did you use to find TDC #1?

[ZR]

Pull Spark Plug (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=spark+plug) #1, rotate engine using rachet (http://viglink.pgpartner.com/rd.php?r=6092&m=1011868760&q=n&rdgt=1434292206&it=1434724206&et=1434897006&priceret=12.98&pg=~~3&k=258cb025bf18e667c872fd6fdb99b81e&source=feed&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhomedepot%2Erdr%2Echannelintellig ence%2Ecom%2Fgo%2Easp%3FfVhzOC8fBggESSNgX1dcQRlnE3 o4YRlOAgRKaWZdUF0PESJDKzAnXQgfH0AoJUELBB5EOlpUUFBt JzxAHUAfczo3HwYZXhBzTS1pKwADAB1fK38XTlhDEXNTITd%2A f1NEUlg6JkI3AhYMGlBTUQlxaQNMUVsdBWpnXlJEQRFqE3F8ah oLD0NEPDEABw5OQjdWHHdmFAMCBQZpdAwTBRBOOloZA0cvLTBG W1QfBnkxAjwGHkJjVysrI11bXlcUAH8fEQIQRDlNIiYxSEAdbh 0bYFo7RiwMbA8QCBZ7fWQU%26nAID%3D35912516&st=feed&mt=~~~~~~~~n~~~). Put your thumb over the spark plug (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=spark+plug) hole, when pressure pushes your finger off the hole, you have the compression stroke of the engine, that is what you want. Then stop and look at the balancer, it will be nearing -0-, turn the engine to -0-, and drop in the distributor. The rotor should point directly at the #1 plug terminal on the cap. At this point your motor is at TDC and timing is at 0. Start it up, and get a timing light on it. Turn clockwise to advance timing.

If you wish to fire up at 10deg advance, rotate until pointer is at 10 (make sure it's advanced, not retarded), drop in dist and align rotor up with cylinder #1, snug down, fire up and set timing.

[Frankie]

The cam turns twice for every turn of the crank.
if you stab the distributor when #1 is at tdc after the exhaust stroke strange things happen.
Usually bucks and backfires - if it runs are all.

Crap, just read that again......crank turns twice for every turn of the cam. D'oh!

[1quikgt]

Pull Spark Plug (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=spark+plug) #1, rotate engine using rachet (http://viglink.pgpartner.com/rd.php?r=6092&m=1011868760&q=n&rdgt=1434292206&it=1434724206&et=1434897006&priceret=12.98&pg=~~3&k=258cb025bf18e667c872fd6fdb99b81e&source=feed&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhomedepot%2Erdr%2Echannelintellig ence%2Ecom%2Fgo%2Easp%3FfVhzOC8fBggESSNgX1dcQRlnE3 o4YRlOAgRKaWZdUF0PESJDKzAnXQgfH0AoJUELBB5EOlpUUFBt JzxAHUAfczo3HwYZXhBzTS1pKwADAB1fK38XTlhDEXNTITd%2A f1NEUlg6JkI3AhYMGlBTUQlxaQNMUVsdBWpnXlJEQRFqE3F8ah oLD0NEPDEABw5OQjdWHHdmFAMCBQZpdAwTBRBOOloZA0cvLTBG W1QfBnkxAjwGHkJjVysrI11bXlcUAH8fEQIQRDlNIiYxSEAdbh 0bYFo7RiwMbA8QCBZ7fWQU%26nAID%3D35912516&st=feed&mt=~~~~~~~~n~~~). Put your thumb over the spark plug (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=spark+plug) hole, when pressure pushes your finger off the hole, you have the compression stroke of the engine, that is what you want. Then stop and look at the balancer, it will be nearing -0-, turn the engine to -0-, and drop in the distributor. The rotor should point directly at the #1 plug terminal on the cap. At this point your motor is at TDC and timing is at 0. Start it up, and get a timing light on it. Turn clockwise to advance timing.

If you wish to fire up at 10deg advance, rotate until pointer is at 10 (make sure it's advanced, not retarded), drop in dist and align rotor up with cylinder #1, snug down, fire up and set timing.

Does the rotor also need to be pointing toward #1 cylinder? Getting conflicting info during my research. Some say it does others say just at #1 on cap.

[ZR]

Pointing at #1 on the dist cap.
Did you bump over as described above to figure out TDC for #1?

[1quikgt]

Yes. At least I think it was the compression stroke. I'll have to start over from the first step again when I have time

[Tailites]

Yes. At least I think it was the compression stroke.

hm...this will bite you in the azz every time...know its on compression stroke

if youre not sure...pull the valve cover & make sure both valves are closed...piston at TDC

look at the balancer marks to verify...rotor shud be pointing at number one plug under the cap

[1quikgt]

I'll have to just start from the beginning again and triple check everything. I won't learn anything if don't ask questions when I have a problem. Thanks for the help everyone.

[ZR]

Finger in the hole, roll till it tries to fire yer finger out. Look at the balancer and turn until it's at 10deg advanced. Dist in with rotor pointing at terminal for cylinder #1, snug down and fire up.

[Frankie]

Any luck fixing the problem?

[1quikgt]

Nope. I can get it started and it runs pretty rough for a few seconds and then dies unless I keep giving it has. I may have to get an appt with the Dr ZR if he has an opening as I am all out of ideas.

[ZR]

Where abouts are you?

[1quikgt]

Where abouts are you?

West side of Bowmanville