Cayuga track map...

[Stephen06GT]

For those of you new to the road course at Cayuga, sorry Toronto Motosports Park, here is a track map for you to review. Please note that for our event the only passing zones will be on the two long straights between turns 13 and 1 and between 1 and 2. Passing on the right, only after the lead car signals. If you are the lead car and signal the pass, please let up on the gas. Don't make it a drag race.

http://ecuflashking.com/r1/TMP_track_layout_old.png

[hsousa88]

Wheres the foxbody pullover zone? ;x

[RedSN]

^^^at the end of turn #2-3 where the brakes melt ;)

[Screw]

They have brakes ?

[Amsoil Guy]

The white part is where you'll find the Lightning and I lol.

[tulowd]

Wheres the foxbody pullover zone? ;x

spin out at end of front straight - there is a large berm that will stop you eventually

anywhere on the infield is good, soft grass and mud, the curbs can toss you up in the air a little bit too :)

[99chromegt]

Good old turn 12 :)

[99chromegt]

Start---------------------------------------------finish


^^^^I thought a map of the drag strip might help

[RedSN]

anywhere on the infield is good, soft grass and mud,
hopefully they filled the large muddy pothole at the exit of #3


edit:#5 as Armen said.

[Armen]

Did they fix the pothole on the driver's side runoff at turn 5 yet? If not, that's something to watch out for.

[Not4you]

outside #9 seems to collect its fair share of cars ...

[fast Ed]

Did they fix the pothole on the driver's side runoff at turn 5 yet? If not, that's something to watch out for.

Just stay on the frickin' pavement, and it won't be an issue!! ;-)

People typically would be doing corner 4 with too early an entrance, thereby messing up your entrance for 5. That's another protip for road courses ... when a series of corners are joined together, often you must sacrifice the "proper" entry and exit for the first corner to set up properly for the next one.


cheers
Ed

[Armen]

Not everyone is a pro like you, Ed.

[fast Ed]

I understand that everyone does not have track experience, and I'm certainly not a pro, far from it!! Just trying to give some hints to help out those that would like some basic advice. :-)

And I'm not ashamed to admit that I've done my share of "high speed agricultural work" over the years at pretty much any track I've ever visited. LOL



cheers
Ed

[Hutch]

"high speed agricultural work" over the years at pretty much any track I've ever visited. LOL



cheers
Ed

This gave me a good laugh. I did a donut into the grass in my last saleen with my Dad in the car at dunnville. We both laughed like crazy as I tried to start the car back up.

[Hutch]

For those of you new to the road course at Cayuga, sorry Toronto Motosports Park, here is a track map for you to review. Please note that for our event the only passing zones will be on the two long straights between turns 13 and 1 and between 1 and 2. Passing on the right, only after the lead car signals. If you are the lead car and signal the pass, please let up on the gas. Don't make it a drag race.

http://ecuflashking.com/r1/TMP_track_layout_old.png
Good rules Stephen! Another point as we have been joking about going into the grass. If you do slide out of control on the pavement or into the grass don't get back on the track and try to go the same pace again. Put your 4 ways on and go back to the pits and check out your car. I have seen people get right back on the track and give it and then get mud and crap all over the track and their car slides all over the place as well. You never know, you may have broken something

[NickD]

I found I was harder on the brakes at turn one if I remember right, I carried more speed I think through 2 and had to slow down a lot for 3-5
like matt said turn 9 was my spin and I saw several others in the same spot
Im disappointed dasilva called today and I told them In not going to be able to make it..

[Ghost Rider]

outside #9 seems to collect its fair share of cars ...

I think people just aren't getting whoa'd up enough you don't have a lot of time after the chicane to get set, you need to be ready for it...

it's a technical piece of that track there IMO

[ZR]

May be partially due to how much speed you needed to scrub off to make 6 then trying too hard to make up time. More time to be trimmed by figuring out the right entrance approach angle to 7 so you can steer virtually straight through it and 8 and set up for 9. My own car is faster between 9 and 10 when I scrub off x tra speed so as to keep to the left side of 9 which in turn allows a good pull into the entrance to 10 also leaving me in the best possible entrance into 10.
I do the same between 3 and 4 by holding the speed down off 2 and staying wide then cutting hard to the inside of 3.
Worth trying if those corners are a problem for you.

[ZR]

ON A SIDE NOTE

-Don't forget,those pre-registered for both tracks (and paid for) are in on the draw for that beautiful tool set we've got up for grabs. We'll be drawing for it before we go back on the track after lunch.

-If you've got your name down for track day but have not made payment yet, please do so ASAP. Reon is standing by ready to take your credit card information.

thanks guys

[Not4you]

May be partially due to how much speed you needed to scrub off to make 6 then trying too hard to make up time. More time to be trimmed by figuring out the right entrance approach angle to 7 so you can steer virtually straight through it and 8 and set up for 9. My own car is faster between 9 and 10 when I scrub off x tra speed so as to keep to the left side of 9 which in turn allows a good pull into the entrance to 10 also leaving me in the best possible entrance into 10.
I do the same between 3 and 4 by holding the speed down off 2 and staying wide then cutting hard to the inside of 3.
Worth trying if those corners are a problem for you.

^^^^ this is something that really trips up a lot of guys that are seeing the track for the first time. When you are out on track and approaching T6, it looks like a simple 90 degree turn from one short straight to another. But when you see it on the map it is clearly a proper hairpin, that needs a wide entry and late apex. So as you've said, guys lose a lot of time when they need to lift on exit.

[RedSN]

T6 is the most challenging corner on the track IMO. Have to hang out to the right for what seems like an eternity before turning in.

But then I get enough speed going straight thru 7-8 that when I'm braking for 9 my ABS usually kicks in. It's bumpy going in there.

[Stephen06GT]

This has been posted before, but I'll bump it up to give the new RC participants an idea of the track:


http://youtu.be/1alq8m8Fh8c

[Intmdtr]

I am installing a front drive axle in my stang. I plan to check out both the in fields and outfields of each corner.......

[Ghost Rider]

This has been posted before, but I'll bump it up to give the new RC participants an idea of the track:


http://youtu.be/1alq8m8Fh8c



nice demonstration...

was also nice of you to put the video in slow motion so we could see all the corners clearly :boxer:

:D

[RedSN]

edit: glad I could help.

[Stephen06GT]

TTT

[hsousa88]

10 days away boys... wooo I'm ready

[Ghost Rider]

guess I'll throw up my junk in this thread as well...


2960



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pys1wmxC0rc



Turn 1:

I try to get to outside as far as possible (without hitting the grass)
start my turn in just before the cone and aim for the cone at the apex
of the turn, carrying as much speed as I can right out to the grass
on exit of the turn. If I don't start this turn very wide then I can't
get any speed on exit due to the car pushing so much.


Turn 2-3:

Again I stay well wide on entry. This is a double apex corner that I try
to get around as a single as much as possible. Soft on entry and drift out
to just touch the curbing, trying to keep smooth and not jerk the wheel
too much. On exit, instead of drifting the car out wide I try to keep it
tucked in to the right side as much as possible to allow me to set up for
the esses (turn 4&5)


Turn 4-5 (The Esses):

I try to just touch the curbing on the entry of turn 4 then turn out on
a straight diagonal across to turn 5 and the same, just touch the curbing
on the right side, then let the car drift out on exit and just barely
touch the curbing on the left side before crossing to the right side of
the track to get set up for turn 6.


Turn 6:

One of the tightest corners on the track, can be tricky, however you brake
well in advanced for this corner you can drive through smooth and pull out
hard on the other side. I stay to far right on entry, brake early to allow
myself plenty of time to watch for my apex. I look for the cone at centre
apex and steer the car for that, focusing only on the cone, once the car has
come around the cone I'm hard back on the gas and drift all the way out to
the right side of track often touching the curbing but as smooth as I can be
on the wheel.


Turn 7A,B-8:

Everyone has their favourite part of the track, well...this is mine! This is
where I gain and pull on people the most. I accelerate hard on the small straight
and don't let off the gas until I enter 7A, then I'm ready to hit the brakes
hard as I hit 7B, then I stay to the inside for turn 8, cut it hard and let the
car naturally drift out to the right. Instead of driving around the turns I
basically stick the car straight through, touching the curbing on the left (7A)
and then touching the curbing on the right (7B).

*Note:

I do not recommend trying this for rookies or guys that are unsure of this
turn, this is NOT the way I started going through this section when I first started
tracking...I've only been able to do this since I've got more comfortable with
the way the car rolls through there. It doesn't look that aggressive in the in car
video but trust me you can get bounced around there pretty good it's a real "PAY
ATTENTION TO HOW FAST YOUR GOING" Section. Also please note, this is not to scare
or deter anybody, simply suggesting drive to yours and your cars ability and you'll
be absolutely fine!! :)


Turn 9:

I don't really have alot of strategy for this corner, just try to drive it as smooth
as possible so I still have decent speed coming out of it. I basically stay to the
outside on entry, look for the cone in the middle of the apex and steer for it, then
drift out to the left, how far out will depend on how much speed you carry through
this turn, this is one of my slower corners, so I don't get out to the curbing
on exit alot of the time, however that sometimes helps me set up for turn 10.


Turn 10:

Setting up for turn 10, I stay outside to the right, almost to the grass for a split
second before I start my turn in as I like to make this a long sweeper so to speak,
starting my turn earlier and keeping my eye on that apex cone on the left and aiming
straight for it staying inside and rolling over the curbing as much as possible which
helps set up my entry for the last double apex turn (11-12)


Turn 11-12:

This is really a double apex turn. For this turn I kinda just float the car through it.
I used to be on & off the gas all the way through (I was fucking terrible at it) but
then I learned to treat it as one corner and keep on the gas just enough to float the
car smoothly around it, get back on the gas on exit, drifting the car out towards the
wall and down the front straight.


Please note this is far from a track tutorial, this is just the way I get around the
track that works for me and thought I would share.

[RedSN]

Nice write up GR. Nice to see what a fast lap looks like ;)


It doesn't look that aggressive in the in car video but trust me you can get bounced around there pretty good
Like I said, my ABS kicks in here. A combination of hard braking and bumpy surface. Good advice for rookies to take it easy through here.

[jibbijib]

I am installing a front drive axle in my stang. I plan to check out both the in fields and outfields of each corner.......

I challenge you to see who can cut more grass!

[RedSN]

I'm going with the fox on this one

http://www.volocars.com/galleria_images/2166/2166_main_f.jpg

[Styrofoam04]

Wow thats quick!! What about shift points? It look like you mostly drive in 2nd and 3rd?

I mostly in 3rd and theres a few spots I think i should be in second.
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn268/Styrofoam04/Mustang/TMPTrackLog20140910_zpse838484f.jpg

Mostly turn 6 and turn 9. I'd like to come out of turn 12 in 2nd but not sure when that should happen? Between turn 10 and 11? or maybe before 9 and stay in 2nd untill I come out of 12?

I keep saying I want to try it but so far I just stay in 3rd all around

[Blackmare]

Awesome write up and video GR. Pulling some serious speed around that course.

[fast Ed]

Most cars will be second and third gear for most of the course. Some might need to grab fourth on the two main straights depending on gearing.


Leaving it in third all of the way around is a good thing for novices to do, helps you to learn the course quicker because you can direct more of your concentration to that. You might think "I can clutch and shift no problem", which may be true, but doing it in the right spots requires some concentration until it becomes memory ... taking away valuable brain cells and neurons from helping you remember the course layout. :-)


cheers
Ed

[jibbijib]

^^^ I think I might do that til I get used to the track. I imagine I'll get into 4th on the front straight at least. Don't need to be redlining lol.

[Intmdtr]

I will be running the nitrous on the straights.....

[RedSN]

^^^ I think I might do that til I get used to the track. I imagine I'll get into 4th on the front straight at least. Don't need to be redlining lol.
The 5.0 has enough low end torque to get you around in 3rd nicely. You will run out of RPMs on the 2 straights, and you will need 4th.
I sometimes try 2nd around #11, but get a bit of wiggle since I haven't perfected heel/toe shifting. I'm smoother if I keep it in 3rd.

[Styrofoam04]

Leaving it in third all of the way around is a good thing for novices to do, helps you to learn the course quicker because you can direct more of your concentration to that. You might think "I can clutch and shift no problem", which may be true, but doing it in the right spots requires some concentration until it becomes memory ... taking away valuable brain cells and neurons from helping you remember the course layout. :-)

cheers
Ed

This is what usually happens to me. Im so focused on the track and my lines that I say screw it when it come to the gears. I would at least like to try this time mid day after a few sessions. I feel confident enough with my lines and I just want to mentaly prepare for when to shift to 2nd.

Here's what Im thinking correct me if im wrong or if you have a better suggestion:
Shifting to 2nd at the end of my breaking before turn 2 and keep it in second until after I come out of turn 6. Same thing with turn 9 until i come out of 12. I think my RPM's wont be higher then 5000 in 2nd gear for those parts of the track.

Let me know what you think?

[Amsoil Guy]

Most cars will be second and third gear for most of the course. Some might need to grab fourth on the two main straights depending on gearing.


Leaving it in third all of the way around is a good thing for novices to do, helps you to learn the course quicker because you can direct more of your concentration to that. You might think "I can clutch and shift no problem", which may be true, but doing it in the right spots requires some concentration until it becomes memory ... taking away valuable brain cells and neurons from helping you remember the course layout. :-)


cheers
Ed
So what I read here is....... Automagic FTW!

[Ghost Rider]

This is what usually happens to me. Im so focused on the track and my lines that I say screw it when it come to the gears. I would at least like to try this time mid day after a few sessions. I feel confident enough with my lines and I just want to mentaly prepare for when to shift to 2nd.

Here's what Im thinking correct me if im wrong or if you have a better suggestion:
Shifting to 2nd at the end of my breaking before turn 2 and keep it in second until after I come out of turn 6. Same thing with turn 9 until i come out of 12. I think my RPM's wont be higher then 5000 in 2nd gear for those parts of the track.

Let me know what you think?


NO WAY!! there is no way you can stay in second between 5-6

maybe...maybe between 9-10 depending on how well you come out of 9


there is lots of time for thinking and shifting between 5-6 though, just my opinion :)

[Styrofoam04]

You dont think so? I break so early between 5-6 I dont make it half way before I start breaking?

So when do I go to 3rd then back to 2nd? all between 5 and 6?

Thanks Dave this is helpful

[Ghost Rider]

You dont think so? I break so early between 5-6 I dont make it half way before I start breaking?

So when do I go to 3rd then back to 2nd? all between 5 and 6?

Thanks Dave this is helpful

I mean it depends on your driving and the car I suppose

I guess you could rev it out in 2nd gear but I have 7K rpm in the Mach and I run out of tach quickly there...

if you check out my video I shift into 3rd just past the curbing on the left side coming out of turn 5...now I'm only in 3rd for about 3 seconds but for me that's enough time to justify a shift

you'll just have to feel it out

it also depends on how well you come out of the esses, the fast the less gear your going to have for the small straight, the slower, the more you will still have left (if that makes sense)

[Styrofoam04]

That make sence. I'm just not sure I can upshift then down shift in time. But I want to learn! I can always try it out slowly should give me more time or i just leave it in third and try next time.

Do you mind riding shotgun when I'm ready to try it?

[Not4you]

are you comfortable with heel/toe downshifting Foam? if not, there is a lot of space there to practice a bit before trying it on the track.

[Not4you]

I sometimes will leave mine in 2nd between 5-6, but I am up around 7,000RPM when I need to brake. This is with the 4v Mach1 heads, 3.55 gears. It won't be as fast, but you may want to consider leaving it in 3rd from the braking zone into T2 all the way through that complex to the exit of T6. That section of TMP is quite technical, it keeps you very busy. Focusing on the line and weight transfer etc may be the way to go before introducing shifting. If you dont get the downshift right, wheel hop in T3 and T6 can send you around, so save the shifting until you are really comfortable with everything else that is going on. If leaving it in second is not an option (revving too high) and downshifting adds complexity, staying in 3rd may be the ticket.

[RedSN]

If you dont get the downshift right, wheel hop in T3 and T6 can send you around,
Thanks.

[Styrofoam04]

^^^ I guess that happend?!

Thanks Matt, I'll stay in 3rd there. What about Shifting to second before 10? and drive through to the straight?

[Ghost Rider]

I sometimes will leave mine in 2nd between 5-6, but I am up around 7,000RPM when I need to brake. This is with the 4v Mach1 heads, 3.55 gears. It won't be as fast, but you may want to consider leaving it in 3rd from the braking zone into T2 all the way through that complex to the exit of T6. That section of TMP is quite technical, it keeps you very busy. Focusing on the line and weight transfer etc may be the way to go before introducing shifting. If you dont get the downshift right, wheel hop in T3 and T6 can send you around, so save the shifting until you are really comfortable with everything else that is going on. If leaving it in second is not an option (revving too high) and downshifting adds complexity, staying in 3rd may be the ticket.

Good advice

[Ghost Rider]

That make sence. I'm just not sure I can upshift then down shift in time. But I want to learn! I can always try it out slowly should give me more time or i just leave it in third and try next time.

Do you mind riding shotgun when I'm ready to try it?

can do a ride along if you like...yep

[Ghost Rider]

^^^ I guess that happend?!

Thanks Matt, I'll stay in 3rd there. What about Shifting to second before 10? and drive through to the straight?

do you mean shifting to "3rd" before 10?

if so, then yes this is a good option again, until you get more comfy with shifting...it's pretty tight going from 3rd down to 2nd between turn 10-11

[fast Ed]

So what I read here is....... Automagic FTW!

Sure, what colour nylons are you wearing under those pants anyway? LOL

[Styrofoam04]

Sorry I might be confused on the turn numbers some show 7a and 7b others 7 and 8 so I'll repost this to help me.

http://ecuflashking.com/r1/TMP_track_layout_old.png

So I'll stay in 3rd all through turn 2 to 8. untill I feel more comfortable going from 3rd to 2nd. (Thanks Matt and Don)

In the mean time I'd like to try some where more safe and Im thinking downshifting to 2nd between 9-10 and stay in second until after 13.
I find my RPM's drop to 1900 coming out of turn 10 on 3rd gear and slugish to get out.

Or should I just do it 8-9 like you do in the video? and stay until the straight.

Again Thanks for the help

[Ghost Rider]

Sorry I might be confused on the turn numbers some show 7a and 7b others 7 and 8 so I'll repost this to help me.

http://ecuflashking.com/r1/TMP_track_layout_old.png

So I'll stay in 3rd all through turn 2 to 8. untill I feel more comfortable going from 3rd to 2nd. (Thanks Matt and Don)

In the mean time I'd like to try some where more safe and Im thinking downshifting to 2nd between 9-10 and stay in second until after 13.
I find my RPM's drop to 1900 coming out of turn 10 on 3rd gear and slugish to get out.

Or should I just do it 8-9 like you do in the video? and stay until the straight.

Again Thanks for the help

your probably better to DS between 8-9 BUT...only if you feel comfortable there as you don't have much time after coming through the little chicane...

you could wait till after the left hander (turn 9) I just think it might feel unnatural there, however...might work out great, until your actually on the track it's hard to speculate what might work better for you, your car and it's RPM range...


lol, that probably wasn't much help but...I guess I'm just saying, try both and see what fits better within your comfort zone :)

[Styrofoam04]

lol, that probably wasn't much help but...I guess I'm just saying, try both and see what fits better within your comfort zone :)

Cool I like that.... and since I'm slower then Don pulling Grocery cart.. I think I will have tons of time .lol

[Ghost Rider]

^^^haha

[RedSN]

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/LX-Markham/TMC/g-cart_zpshdy4mxb1.jpg

[Styrofoam04]

^^ too funny

[Not4you]

another thing to consider. downshifting when the car is going straight and neutral balanced is key when you are getting used to it. Between T9-T10 looks straight, but since it is a relatively short space, and you'll likely be traversing the track from 9-Exit to 10-Entry (right to left side of that short straight part of the track) your car will be only flat for a split second as weight transfers from the right side to the left. You could fit in a downshift under braking for T10, but this is a fairly slow part of the track so the brake zone is very brief. As GR has said, the ideal place to get the downshift done is between T8-T9 as soon as you clear the chicane, but this is pretty high risk moment IMO.

honestly, all of these scenarios and decisions will be nearly entirely based on the driver's ability to rev match during threshold braking (aka: heel/toe). if that's a non-issue, a shift can take less than a second and can be done just about anywhere. If not, while it is not ideal, you can save the shifts for the apex of T6 and T10. basically roll into the corners in 3rd with no throttle, then at the apex clutch-in/shift and throttle out. but this would be a temporary solution things get comfortable.