Suspension upgrading

[b1lk1]

OK, I need to upgrade my suspension. Stock control arms combined with drop springs that are far too low for my old ass means I need to get this done. I am working with a really restrictive budget, was thinking of boxing the rear control arms myself and getting a full poly bushing kit for the whole car. Was looking at springs, how would the Ford Racing B of C springs work in my car? Car will see 99% street, I'm going to Mosport this summer and if I'm really lucky I'm going to Cayuga a few times before summers end.

I don't need a road race ready car, I have LOTS of work left to do to my car. But these springs need to go now, lol!

[HyperGT]

you may need new shocks and struts. Stockers rarly can handle the additional spring rates and cause the car to bottom out, ride rough and drop too low. What springs are you running now? Contol arms, while improve handling will have very little impact on ride height - unless rear weight jacker style.

[RedSN]

What springs are in the car now?
I wouldn't put poly bushings in the upper control arm, leave them stock.
Good set of quality dampers will go a long way.

[Slick_89_Hatch]

SFC's first if you don't have any. Stock Upper Control arms. Boxed lowers with poly bushings if you can do the work yourself would be a decent upgrade on a budget. Springs, I only recommend H&R for a Fox as they always work amazing. Then a decent set of Shocks/Struts to match the rate of your springs. Oh, and if you can swing it, CC plates as the added caster you can achieve makes a big difference in how the car tracks on the road. If you keep an eye out, shocks/struts and possibly springs could be had used for a great deal. Same with CC plates. If you can also get a set of bushings for the front lower control arms that would be helpful as well. Oh, another cheap but good mod are poly STOCK offset bushings for your steering rack ($20).

[b1lk1]

Right now I have Drop Zone springs, they are semi-fresh and the car is quite low/stiff. I have yet to bottom out my longtubes, although I don't have alot of seat time. It also has a bump steer(?) kit for the outer tie rods. Front tires are 215/65/15 and rears are getting changed. Also have welded in subframe connectors.

As for boxing control arms, was wondering if that allowed removal of quad shocks.

I also need shocks/struts, just starting to figure this stuff out. For my taste, my car is too low, I like the idea of the Ford Racing B/C springs as they are for little drop yet better spring rates.

I have all the tools I need and will do all the work, I can even personally align it at my friends shop.

I cannot afford $1K kits, I'm hoping to do alot of backyard improvements, not expecting results using good parts, just stuff to tighten it up as much as possible.

[Ghost Rider]

what type of car is this? I thought we were talking about a 197

[ZR]

Fox stuff with a huge bang for the buck pay off.

2 x KYB shocks
2 x KYB struts
1 x Eibach Pro Kit (or MM road and track if your more performance minded)
2 x MM rear lower arms (uppers if in good shape are ok for now / go to '99 up or FMS uppers when $ allows)
1 x MM alum rack bushings
1 x MM Caster camber plates
1 x Install (yes quads can bite the dust)
1 x Alignment
1000 x Enjoy your brand new feeling car

Of course all of the above should only be done after a set of properly installed Steeda full length sub frame connectors

[tulowd]

1) tighten the front chassis with at least a G load brace - the 4 pt MM is the best one out there; their shock tower brace as well; makes steering quicker/tighter
2) replace front control arm bushings w/ polyurethane; make sure all swaybar bushings are good and the bar ends at rest are parallel to the ground with the correct end link length
3) good shocks and real springs (the better the shocks the better the ride) 5300 C's are nice but need real shocks
4) if car is lowered, replace the pinion snubber rubber portion with the one from MM otherwise you're riding on the stock loaf of bread, lol
5) tubular lower rear control arms; the MM or Global West are the way to go if you have the $$ (upper arms stock or 99+ GT forget urethane or ull rip ur floor)
6) Panhard bar - MM or Steeda

[b1lk1]

what type of car is this? I thought we were talking about a 197

1988 Notch.

[RAT ATK]

I don't think you can run a 4-point G-load brace with long tubes.

[hsousa88]

I don't think you can run a 4-point G-load brace with long tubes.
Pretty sure you can't.. I was looking into one but the MM website made it pretty clear they wont fit.

[tulowd]

will depend on the long tubes, sometimes the vert one can fit

[b1lk1]

I have a welder, I'll likely build my own braces, same with strut tower/shock brace. They are pretty simple devices to copy if you ask me.

[ZR]

May look easy but are anything but. Materials used, welding etc play a huge part.

[b1lk1]

Been shopping for parts, these 2 are in my cart no matter what:

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/MM-MMRLCA1/79-98-Mustang-Maximum-Motorsports-Rear-Lower-Control-Arms

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/PT-6209BL/79-93-Mustang-Prothane-Black-Front-Control-Arm-Bushings-With-Metal-Shells

Going for rear tires this Friday and ordering those 2 parts. I'm pretty much going to ignore the upper control arms unless the bushings are wasted, if so they will get stock rubber bushings. Can I ditch the quads at this point?

Next up will be struts. I think to keep costs low I'll keep my current springs, they are in good physical and working condition, just wish the car was a bit higher. Will I notice a difference between adjustable struts/shocks and non? Depending on funds I may do caster/camber plates at this time too, I need them.

Then panhard bar, and then, dare I dream, torque arm and bye bye upper control arms.

Spreading this out over the summer, in the stages I listed, does this seem like a logical plan? Remember, car will not be on the track nearly as much as street. I'm not a corner carver, but I want the car to turn when I turn the wheel and I want it to stick better than stock.

Can't agree more ZR, those companies have engineers, I am not. But for the basic braces as long as I use good strong stuff I have little fear of not doing it right.

[ZR]

Quad removed is based on lower arm selection. No problem to remove with MM lowers and stock uppers.
Springs of the correct ride ht and rate along with corresponding shocks n struts = you'll be happy with the results. Cheap out or mismatch = buckboard that you'll grow to hate driving. Don't need to spend a bundle, just need to match em up.

[b1lk1]

I have a buckboard now, but my struts are blown and the shocks are leaking oil. Wish I knew the exact specs on my springs, although they are quite firm as I have yet to bottom out my headers.

[b1lk1]

OK, side stepping just a bit, got a set of 17" Cobra rims w/tires coming tomorrow, gonna go see Jeff in Georgetown while I'm in the area to see if he has any taller springs. Otherwise, will just live with what I got. Also had to cheap out slightly on control arms and such, but I'm mostly replacing worn out stuff right now so my budget got raped by the rims/tires.

[b1lk1]

Well, decided all or nothing. Took a 350KM drive today to pickup rims/tires. First time since I've owned the car (almost 2 years to the day) I have taken it out of town. Car ran great, although I got a noisy rocker arm or pushrod issue. Not major, just annoying to hear tap-tap-tap. Now running 17" tires, 235/45/17 front and 255/40/17 rear. Finally have some traction, at least on warm dry roads, lol.

Got my control arms and suspension bushings from UPS today, gonna get those in ASAP. Now to find a driver's seat with no gangsta lean.....

[ZR]

Looks great but yes that bitch is low.

[b1lk1]

Have yet to bottom out, drove the back roads back to Lindsay, on the rough sections my kidneys took a helluva beating, lol. Do you think I am too low for enough suspension movement? I need to change out the rear axle bump stop, almost riding on the stock rubber one. I also am trying to squeeze a pair of struts into this month's budget, although kinda tough as my van also needed a complete front brake job.

[tulowd]

bet you be ridin on the pinion snubber, son

[b1lk1]

I can slide my pinky between it, was not my intention to make it this low, the springs I bought (used) were not quite what I expected. Just trying to live with them, need struts worse.

[tulowd]

I can slide my pinky between it, was not my intention to make it this low, the springs I bought (used) were not quite what I expected. Just trying to live with them, need struts worse.

I assume that's without the car moving or you sitting in the drivers seat. Replace the OEM snubber rubber (that rhymes, lol) with the smaller Maximum Motorsport piece - it just bolts onto the factory snubber frame from behind. That will give you a little extra clearance. Do you have new (poly) spring isolators? Those are worth about 1/4" or more in ride height vs the worn out rubber ones.

[TurboFox]

Looks like a nice car tho

[b1lk1]

Yeah, new poly isolators installed. I have a new pinion snubber on the way. Thanks TurboFox, it's still a work in progress, trying to wrap up all mechanical issues then it'll be time for bodywork. Hard to see from that pic, but the driver's rear quarter needs some serious love.

Same guy I got the rims/tires from has a complete rear disc setup that I'll be buying next month after he does his 5 lug conversion.

Other good thing is that I hung one of my mufflers crooked and when we were installing the rims/tires at my buddies shop his OCD kicked in and he cut it off and fixed it, lol.

[ZR]

With stocker in there, no doubt it's doing a whole lotta pounding on the floor, def needs the shorter version.
If the plan is to remain that low, lower end shock n struts will not hold up in the long run.

[b1lk1]

I can't live with it this low, gonna start looking into springs. I gotta save up for the rear disc conversion too, trying to get this all done for June 2nd is a biatch, lol.

[Ghost Rider]

nice looking car!

[b1lk1]

Thanks! It is a 20 footer, needs lots of love in the body, especially that driver's rear quarter, it is rotted on the bottom following hte tailpipe, although lucky for me the backside is in good shape, some sheet metal will be all I need. I think red hides flaws the best, lol. Those rims and tires really made the car, probably double the value too, now it's worth 1/2 what I got into it, lol.

[b1lk1]

In your honest opinions, will I have enough wheel travel for this car to effectively run a road course type track? Take into consideration I am a complete rookie and will be driving within my skills, but I am torn on what to upgrade next, springs and struts/shocks or a rear disc brake conversion. I have a whole conversion with all new parts for rear disc waiting for me at the first of May for roughly $600 (also includes all Hawk pads and new front drilled rotors). I gotta have it all wrapped up by June 2nd for Mosport, don't think there is any more money to squeeze out of my budget after the brakes.

I do have a proper pinion snubber coming as well as rack limiters. Just ordered those along with new pushrods to get rid of the engine tick. Spent $1300 on the car last month, wife is getting anxious, lol.

[tulowd]

if you drive hard at TMP you will need to replace your brake fluid, pads and discs afterwards at the very least. If you have some self control you can drive any car on a road course and have lots of fun and learn something.

[hsousa88]

if you drive hard at TMP you will need to replace your brake fluid, pads and discs afterwards at the very least. If you have some self control you can drive any car on a road course and have lots of fun and learn something.

I plan to brake with my T5 :ford:

[b1lk1]

I plan to brake with my T5 :ford:

I just hope I don't break my T5, lol.

[hsousa88]

To break the T5... or to brake with the T5.. I can imagine 1 of those will be easy if need be.

[tulowd]

in that case you will be installing a clutch and flywheel assembly afterwards, assuming you don't spin out and hit anything when the rears lock up; lol

[b1lk1]

I won't be doing alot of engine braking myself, my transmission is not in the best of shape, around 180KMPH it starts making really bad noises, lol. These cars are endless money pits........

[hsousa88]

I won't be doing alot of engine braking myself, my transmission is not in the best of shape, around 180KMPH it starts making really bad noises, lol. These cars are endless money pits........

180? I didnt know they went that fast ;)

[Hutch]

Personally if you only have money to do the brakes or suspension, do the brakes!!!! Brake upgrade is one of the best mods for a fox body mustang. You will not regret it. Then build the suspension afterwards starting with better springs. That car is low and cornering hard I wouldn't be surprised is the tires will rub. A really good thing to do is have someone experienced have a good look over the car. Its good for your safety and everyone else as specially if you want to take it on the track. Great car

[b1lk1]

180? I didnt know they went that fast ;)

It's the B-cam man! :sarcasm:

Anyhow, not worried about safety, I've been a mechanic off and on the last 27 years, got all the tools needed to do anything to the car. Just wondering out loud if I need springs right away to get it to corner properly, not happy with current springs other than the fact I own them.

[RedSN]

Just wondering out loud if I need springs right away to get it to corner properly, not happy with current springs other than the fact I own them.
I was curious, so I tried looking up "Drop Zone Suspension" springs in hope of finding out what the spring rate is.
Could not find ANY information online.

So....only one way to find out: try them out on the track and see what happens.
You may end up being the new owner of the "Lean Machine" title :D

[b1lk1]

If there is one thing they don't do is lean, they are quite tight. Only info I can find online is that they tend to drop our cars 2.5-3" which is just too low, but I can't just run out and buy a new set at the moment either. Once the diff stops riding on the snubber (have small urethane coming) I'll likely have a better idea of how compliant they are overall, but I know my front struts have to go whether or not I use these springs. My shocks are OK for now, but the struts are cooked.

[b1lk1]

Out with the old, in with the new. Had to go a cheaper route, so much needs to be changed that it made expensive parts unaffordable. I left the old bushings in the rear end eye holes, although at the very least I am ordering new rubber ones. I am really considering spherical bushings there, they are only about $120 to my door. I already had poly isolators for the springs. Shocks are both blown. Same for the Quads, they had nothing left in them. I tossed them in the trash heap, not putting quads back in.

Ordering struts, shocks and a couple more bushings Tuesday, right around $400 more (UGH!). Already spend about $350 on the suspension (including that new MM snubber for my super low car, lol). Urethane rack bushings are already in, I have all the bushings for the front swaybar too. Removing the control arms for their new bushings today.

I can't wait to see how this feels, it was always loose before. Rear lower control arm bushings were gonzo. Also, rear was about 1/2" forward on the drivers side, that is now also fixed.

Gotta get it on an alignment rack to see if I need CC plates, really not wanting the expense, but am just expecting it.....

[b1lk1]

Entire right front suspension disassembled, ball joint is also no good. Driver's ball joint was replaced (it was not pressed in properly, I had to fix that last year). What a slugfest for 3 hours tearing it down, everything was happy right where it was. Managed to get control arm bolts bushing out, they are still in great shape too. Will be attacking the driver's side tomorrow. Ordering everything to get the front done tomorrow, I'm on a June 1st deadline if I want to make it to Mosport like planned..

So happy the entire rear suspension is now done and buttoned up. Just need to re-bleed the brakes but will do that when it's time to put all the tires on as the fluid needs a good flush.

Anyone that thinks their bushings are still in good shape if they have the originals is just kidding themselves. What little cracking that I could see was trumped by the major cracking/separation of the insides of the bushings. I'm talking all four corners too.

[b1lk1]

OK, quick question: Am I better off with new rubber bushings in the rear axle eye holes or spherical? I'm running tubular control arms with Urethane bushings, but I left the original bushings in the rear end eye holes, they weren't torn. I want to replace them and am torn. Everything I read says just use rubber there, is that the general consensus here too?

My shocks/struts are here with all their new mounts so I am getting ready to button up the suspension this week.

[ZR]

Yes rubber at the diff end for a street car. Also, strongly suggest you stick with either '99GT or FMS upper arms only. Poly or similar is brutal on the torque boxes because of the bind it creates.

[b1lk1]

I am going to weld in a bunch of reinforcement for lower and upper torque boxes. I already have the interior removed, just gotta get my ass in gear.

I'm gonna order a new set of rubber bushings, they do need to be changed, no way they are not dry and hard as they are definitely original. I'm sure most will disagree, but I am keeping the tubular uppers with the Urethane bushing. I just cannot afford to replace them with anything else, even getting the bushings and a ball joint (these parts just gotta be replaced) will completely drain my fund for the car for parts for the summer. I spent $2K in 3 1/2 weeks...........

[ZR]

JMO, would stick the stock uppers back in first.