MM Coilovers - Hard to install?

[Slick_89_Hatch]

Hey guys, looking at getting MM coilovers for the Fox to use with my Tokico illumina's. Probably a 10" 250-275lb springs.
Question, is there much involved with the install? I'm pretty handy and do most of my own work but never tackled coilovers on a Mustang.
Do you think my Steeda 3 bolt CC plates would work ok, or should I go with the MM 4 bolt? I have the MM 4 bolt on my 96 and they are nice pieces but if I don't need to buy new ones then why bother right?

[RedSN]

Easy mod.

I like the MM camber plates because they are reversible to get more camber. Not sure about the steeda ones.

http://www.torontomustangclub.ca/forums/showthread.php?2313-Coil-over-Front-Suspension

[2DXTRM]

If your Steeda plates are the billet aluminum ones, you should be OK with coilovers. Check their site.

[tulowd]

If your Steeda plates are the billet aluminum ones, you should be OK with coilovers. Check their site.

I have heard the opposite from several sources- aluminum can fatigue with age and could eventually break. I wouldn't risk it - I bent a set of the original McCaster steel plates without coilovers. Would hate to think the damage it would do to your strut, hood and of course whatever you end up running into.

Pretty easy install if you've pulled the struts out before. Take your time and don't forget to set the ride height with someone sitting in the drivers seat. Coilovers allow for very precise preload adjustments, which is one of the benefits besides the smoother suspension motion (no bind).

[ZR]

For a coil over set up, my suggestion would be MM plates only. If you follow the instructions, install is straight forward. Spring choice comes down to your priority between ride and handling or best combo of the two.
Worth while to contact MM to get their take on max spring rate with your shocks / struts.

[saleenman]

For a coil over set up, my suggestion would be MM plates only. If you follow the instructions, install is straight forward. Spring choice comes down to your priority between ride and handling or best combo of the two.
Worth while to contact MM to get their take on max spring rate with your shocks / struts.

X2. But they are very easy to install. Watch out for the length of spring also. Too long of spring could interfere with the tire. May rub.

[Slick_89_Hatch]

Thanks guys! Looks like i'll do the MM CC plates as well.

[MEANMCHN]

The Tokico Illumina's shock body isn't built to support a spring as it's riveted together, be careful.

[Slick_89_Hatch]

Oh.....hmmmm ill have to check with MM as they advertise their kit to fit on the Tokico's.

[MEANMCHN]

If you're using these shocks I'd be careful. The coilover conversion kit relies on the shock body and mount to support the spring, something it wasn't designed to do. These Tokico's in particular have only 2 points where they are either spot welded or riveted together, it's a ton of pressure to put on that area that's not built for it.

1653

If you're going to do the fronts have a look at the coil-overs from KW, they're not a conversion so they're engineered for it.

[Slope]

Looks like i'll do the MM CC plates as well.

Nice pieces. It's worth the premium.

[RedSN]

If you're using these shocks I'd be careful. The coilover conversion kit relies on the shock body and mount to support the spring, something it wasn't designed to do.
Examples of failures? :shrug:

[MEANMCHN]

Examples of failures? :shrug:

Example of any higher end brand or oem running a sleeve on a strut not designed for it? :shrug:

[ZR]

I think your referring to a small number of peeps that bent lower strut mounts some years back. Big brakes and fat ass cars were the culprits, putting insane loads on the ears causing some to bend and the odd one to break off. It was also determined to be no more common to those running coil over conversions vs conventional springs.

[MEANMCHN]

I think your referring to a small number of peeps that bent lower strut mounts some years back. Big brakes and fat ass cars were the culprits, putting insane loads on the ears causing some to bend and the odd one to break off. It was also determined to be no more common to those running coil over conversions vs conventional springs.

I've just never seen any performance car with a sleeve over a shock body that's not made for it. Seems like a REALLY bad idea. At the end of the day there's nothing wrong with pairing a good spring and good shock, separately. If you compare how a true coil-over's shock body is built vs. a standard shock like the Bilstein HD it's night and day. Besides, if you get into a kit from MM it's going to cost $1500-2000, may as well spend that on something that was built and engineered to work together from the start.

[tulowd]

I've just never seen any performance car with a sleeve over a shock body that's not made for it. Seems like a REALLY bad idea. At the end of the day there's nothing wrong with pairing a good spring and good shock, separately. If you compare how a true coil-over's shock body is built vs. a standard shock like the Bilstein HD it's night and day. Besides, if you get into a kit from MM it's going to cost $1500-2000, may as well spend that on something that was built and engineered to work together from the start.

The Bilsteins that MM bases their own brand of shocks upon are highly modified pieces - they in fact buy the raw parts from Bilstein directly and strengthen the mounting arrangement via some serious welding. When I was there, Chuck the owner told me that Koni shocks have the strongest ear setup, as it is a factory produced wrap around design; that's why they mod the Bilsteins for their own street and race applications.
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg582/tulowd/Maximum%20Motorsport%20Visit/MaximumMotorsports9_zps2e8f1535.jpg

MM supplies dozens of American Iron competitors as well as hundreds of street cars that see regular track time, many on R comps and slicks. Between that and their own weekly Willow Springs track testing and MM's own race cars, I would have to say they have more Mustang suspension experience and know how than anyone else.

I paid $405 USD incl freight to Buffalo for my front coilover setup including matched Hypercoils. The sleeves and upper bearing appear to be Koni pieces, as Koni manufactures their own coilover kits for their sport and D/A struts. Add the price of a set of Koni sports ($450) or as in my case D/A style ($550) and you are still below $ 1000. Most Mustang guys run the single adjustable Koni Sport or the Bilsteins.

[RedSN]

Besides, if you get into a kit from MM it's going to cost $1500-2000, may as well spend that on something that was built and engineered to work together from the start.
You're getting hosed if you're paying that much.

Mustang Coil-Over Kit with Springs, Front, (for Bilstein Struts) $375.33
1987-04 Bilstein HD series strut $224.97 X2

Even after tax you're looking at under $1000.

I searched, and I still can't find anybody complaining about a Bilstein strut failing under the pressure of a coil over conversion.

[MEANMCHN]

You're getting hosed if you're paying that much.

Mustang Coil-Over Kit with Springs, Front, (for Bilstein Struts) $375.33
1987-04 Bilstein HD series strut $224.97 X2

Even after tax you're looking at under $1000.

I searched, and I still can't find anybody complaining about a Bilstein strut failing under the pressure of a coil over conversion.

True, maybe it does work, I just know it's not built for that application and is jerry-rigged to work. Cars on the track like that scare me, it's why I won't go to lapping days run by certain groups. It's always these DIY setups that end up agricultural racing. I don't want to get collected into an accident with someone who has their fingers crossed going around the track.

[RedSN]

it's why I won't go to lapping days run by certain groups.
duly noted.

[ZR]

We'll definitely have to agree to disagree. Just like Don, have not heard nor can I find anyone complaining about a MM coil over related failure. Personally impressed with their design and quality. See no downside to their slide over tube.
Have however had a good amount of exposure to the KW set ups with a totally mixed bag of results (all on Miata's). One did see an eyelet end break off, couple of others had the shock portion fail internally. The eyelet breaking off could very easily be explained by a huge on street impact, impossible to know for sure. Same goes for the internal failure but I'm not seeing anything like that with the Bilsteins.
I feel confident saying that if MM had a problem they would either pull the product or fix it's shortcomings. Strong statement from someone that has not always agreed with them but has the utmost of respect for the peeps and their products.
Either way, wish you well with your set up.

[tulowd]

True, maybe it does work, I just know it's not built for that application and is jerry-rigged to work. Cars on the track like that scare me, it's why I won't go to lapping days run by certain groups. It's always these DIY setups that end up agricultural racing. I don't want to get collected into an accident with someone who has their fingers crossed going around the track.

LMAO - I prefer using a farming implement to do that :

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg582/tulowd/Sledding/IMG_4087_zpsbeb58d4a.jpg

[TheMustangShow]

I've just never seen any performance car with a sleeve over a shock body that's not made for it. Seems like a REALLY bad idea. At the end of the day there's nothing wrong with pairing a good spring and good shock, separately. If you compare how a true coil-over's shock body is built vs. a standard shock like the Bilstein HD it's night and day. Besides, if you get into a kit from MM it's going to cost $1500-2000, may as well spend that on something that was built and engineered to work together from the start.

Huh?? Re: the Price.

...and you may want to spend some time with and get to know the Minds @ MM before criticizing their engineering.

[MEANMCHN]

Ha ha, ya, I'll save the jerry-rigging for someone else. Not when I'm going into a braking zone with a $250,000 McLaren. People appreciate when you do it right on the track.

[Not4you]

Ha ha, ya, I'll save the jerry-rigging for someone else. Not when I'm going into a braking zone with a $250,000 McLaren. People appreciate when you do it right on the track.

so how's that sheet metal seat bracket going to work out for you, Jerry?

[MEANMCHN]

so how's that sheet metal seat bracket going to work out for you, Jerry?

Probably like shit like the factory stuff does, at least won't cause the car to catapult across the track into those concrete things that don't move ;)

[Slick_89_Hatch]

Im going to get in touch with MM and see what they say.

[Slick_89_Hatch]

Talked to MM, no issue with the front Tokico illumina Struts, the issue is trying to put a coil over on a rear strut.

[Slick_89_Hatch]

Meant to say rear shock which cannot be used with a coil over. Front Tokico's are no issue at all. They also said I should be find with my Steeda CC plates so im debating on changing those. Did learn though that SN95 spindles offer an extra 1" of bump travel because the mounting holes for the struts are lower. How the dominoes fall, now maybe ill do a 5 lug conversion. AND this all started by me getting the parts to do a SN95 Steering Rack conversion....which made me think about getting a bumpsteer it as part of the install...then said, bumpsteer is much easier to set with coilovers...which now leads to 5 lug conversion for the extra bump travel...F ME!

[MEANMCHN]

There are a few companies that do corner balancing/alignment all in one. Pfaff Tuning in Woodbridge is the best I know of.

Also make sure to upgrade your ball joints, unless you have already.

I didn't find any bump steer when I went to coilovers, then again I got pretty lucky with the alignment being 99% when everything was installed. The only thing I noticed when I went to coilovers was that the car tramlined more (on the highway, don't get that confused with bump steer, as it's just shitty, rutted Onterrible roads), but if you're not running a really sticky tire, aggressive - camber and a really stiff spring you'll probably be ok.

A typical service at Pfaff Tuning which does your alignment, corner balancing and bump steer correction is about $800, it may be worth installing everything, doing an alignment and seeing where you're at and go from there.

[ZR]

Once bump steer is corrected, shitty roads are no longer shitty.

[Not4you]

unless you're in Detroit

[MEANMCHN]

unless you're in Detroit

The roads in Detroit are FUCKED up, it's crazy...

[TurboFox]

unless you're in Detroit

I know this pain all too well

[ZR]

Suspect it was the last year for mine going to Woodward. Found myself driving way less vs the norm due to road conditions. It drives and rides better than many but don't have the heart to pound it that hard again.
Will be taking the daily driver to Woodward next year.

[CON VERT]

Bumpy ?? BigBird didn't even notice !

[Not4you]

just a couple of small waves crashing under the bow of that big boat. trust me, I felt very bump in my car ... had to stop to pee every few miles.