Coil Over Suspension

[MEANMCHN]

Hey Guys,

HPA Motorsports out west has a pretty killer deal on coilovers. They're KW Kenny Brown tuned units, front and rear, shipped is less than $1,500, usually closer to $2,600.

I just picked up a set.

Darryl Scott, he's easy to deal with: darryl@hpamotorsport.com

Scott

[Ray721]

Holy cap that's a stellar deal! What model KW are they?

[ZR]

Went through a rash of failures with the Miata boys running them. Bilsteins with MM coil over kit on my own.

[Ray721]

Hey Rick, how's Eibach's coil over system? I'll be completely honest in saying I was less than impressed with Bilstein's offerings for the S197 and I'm not alone. I'd really like to lower my car but I want a quality ride. I'm willing to spend the money so it doesn't ride like a lumber wagon.

[Ray721]

Let me clarify my meaning of quality. I'm not wanting a Cadillac smooth ride. I want something firm and reactive. I'd even say I'm OK with what most would consider a harsh ride but my 2006 would bounce. The bouncing drove me insane. To the point I sold it lol

[ZR]

Come for a ride in the Cobra. Coil overs up front, dramatic increase in feel n handling along with an improvement in ride.
Bilstein HD with MM coil over kit 300lb front springs + H&R Race in the rear with Bilsteins as well.

[TheMustangShow]

Hey Rick, how's Eibach's coil over system? I'll be completely honest in saying I was less than impressed with Bilstein's offerings for the S197 and I'm not alone. I'd really like to lower my car but I want a quality ride. I'm willing to spend the money so it doesn't ride like a lumber wagon.



The Bilstein's offerings for the S197 Stang are superb, whether the Factory Electronic Bilstein option on 2013+ GT500s, or the post title options from Bilstein direct.

[ZR]

Ray, I'm betting the springs were to blame. Suspect H&R missed the mark on em.

[Ray721]

Maybe it was the H&R springs. All I know is that I hated the ride. Bouncing all over the place like a civic with chopped springs.

[ZR]

TMS just put fresh Billy's on the back of ye olde Shelby, epic improvement over the factory shocks.

[Ray721]

lol I was typing my spring comment and got sidetracked.

[ZR]

LOL
Night all.

[Ray721]

What I want is adjustable ride height and dampening. I'm gonna shop around. See who has what.

[ZR]

With MM kit, you choose the spring and adjust the ht. Beauty of it, if you miss, springs are cheap and easy to change.

[TheMustangShow]

TMS just put fresh Billy's on the back of ye olde Shelby, epic improvement over the factory shocks.

...and the Bilstein HD struts are on the way for the 500, the Fox Vert also has them @ all for corners.

Bilstein FTW!

[ZR]

Was pretty sure you'd love em.

[TheMustangShow]

Was pretty sure you'd love em.

+ Gord @ Essex is a great guy to deal with and Bilsteins are one of the few high end components we can get here for the same price as in the USA.

[MEANMCHN]

Holy cap that's a stellar deal! What model KW are they?

Aside from all the haters on here running fully non-adjustable setups with different springs and shocks front to back and nothing nice and matchy-matchy ha ha... Pay 'em no mind!

They are KW Kenny Brown V3s.

1563
Fronts, I'd upload the rears but I'm too lazy to request more upload privileges.

[ZR]

Even if they worked like no other set up, SS has no place in any suspension part beyond a shiny nut cover. It takes one hell of a well made shock body and mounting ears to provide a safe and reliable foundation for coil overs.
Do hope the KW stuff stands up for you.

[TheMustangShow]

If any are really ready to get SERIOUS about S197 Suspension, all it takes is a wallet and this link http://www.cortexracing.com/product-category/suspension/

Fil's kits are the bomb, you just need a race team's budget to afford it.



http://www.cortexracing.com/wp-content/uploads/CCK-40-1000-Ohlins-2.jpg

[Ray721]

This deal scares me. $1500 for KW V3? They're regularly like double that. Gah! I'm so torn!!! I've read excellent reviews from quite a few different sites/forums. I've never heard of them failing before. I'm going to bed I need to sleep on it lol

[Ray721]

I actually almost bought KW V1's earlier this year.

I would love some cortex stuff. We'll see how crazy the OT gets at work. If I start working late days and weekends I'd really like their watts link and torque arm combo.

[Speedtospare]

I owned a set of those KW V3's and I was going to put them on the Modfox. The Kw's look like there mass produced out of cheaper material on the outside. I would use them on a street car. Import guys seems to give them good reviews, mainly beemer people.

[ZR]

JT, killer stuff, does require a race team budget to afford though.

[Slick_89_Hatch]

Eventually im going MM coilovers up front on both cars.......

[MEANMCHN]

I love the shit storm I unleashed by telling you guys about a deal I found ha ha. I know better for next time!

Or how about this, come to CTMP, you leave before me, 1 warm up lap and if I don't blue flag you I'll give you $500.

[tulowd]

I love the shit storm I unleashed by telling you guys about a deal I found ha ha. I know better for next time!

Or how about this, come to CTMP, you leave before me, 1 warm up lap and if I don't blue flag you I'll give you $500.


LOL....pls don't take the comment stuff the wrong way. Everyone is just trying to input their experience and opinions to help, not jam you.
Judging by your videos, I would say if you were riding a haywagon with R comps, you would likely do well against the troops ...except maybe ZR's Cobra.

Do you really run lap times below 1:30? I seem to recall anything below 1:40 was pretty stout for a street car...on the old track. I didn't time anyone @ Mustangs at Mosport, but is the track faster than before?

[TheMustangShow]

I love the shit storm I unleashed by telling you guys about a deal I found ha ha. I know better for next time!

Or how about this, come to CTMP, you leave before me, 1 warm up lap and if I don't blue flag you I'll give you $500.

LoL!

[RedSN]

I love the shit storm I unleashed
I dunno about a shit storm or not ....but 3 pages so far and the coil-overs haven't even been delivered yet! LOL

[MEANMCHN]

I know, I'm just playing, I get them on Tuesday according to UPS.

As for haywagon, get your facts straight, it's a taxi cab with R comps.

[Not4you]

LOL....pls don't take the comment stuff the wrong way. Everyone is just trying to input their experience and opinions to help, not jam you.
Judging by your videos, I would say if you were riding a haywagon with R comps, you would likely do well against the troops ...except maybe ZR's Cobra.

Do you really run lap times below 1:30? I seem to recall anything below 1:40 was pretty stout for a street car...on the old track. I didn't time anyone @ Mustangs at Mosport, but is the track faster than before?

I'm curious about this myself. The back of the NASCAR Truck field are lapping slower.

but 400hp + driver + tires = fast laps.

[MEANMCHN]

I'm curious about this myself. The back of the NASCAR Truck field are lapping slower.

but 400hp + driver + tires = fast laps.

The track is about 2 seconds faster than it was mid-last year. There is no longer a huge crease/ledge/hole to avoid between 2B and 3 and 10 can be taken significantly faster than last year (same deal with the crease/ledge/seam/whatever). Even Moss is better, most people lose about 2 seconds through turn 2 simply because they don't realize it's as fast as it is. Every video I see of people lapping they're in 3rd going into turn 3 (and yes, gear choice is a variable, but very few people run taller gears than I do - 3.55s - in their Mustangs and I'm nowhere near 3rd). One of my videos I actually try 3rd through 3 and the car went sideways because I had to slow down so abruptly into turn 3 because of the gear change.

I'm already at 400+ laps of CTMP so far this year, typically I do about 600-700 laps per season, so I do have a lot of experience.

[Not4you]

I don't think I get what you're saying. so what gear do you run between T2 and T3 and what are you in at T3 apex/exit? I typically run 3rd gear from T1 to T5 braking zone at very high rpm ... but then I have 150 less hp so that could make a difference. I have 3.55s as well.

[MEANMCHN]

I don't think I get what you're saying. so what gear do you run between T2 and T3 and what are you in at T3 apex/exit? I typically run 3rd gear from T1 to T5 braking zone at very high rpm ... but then I have 150 less hp so that could make a difference. I have 3.55s as well.

I'm at the top of 4th gear until Moss with 3.55s, Moss and 10 are the only times I use 3rd.

Entry/Apex/Exit in km/h
Turn 1: 160/160/170
Turn 2A-B: 180+/160/170
Turn 3: 120/130/160
Turn 4: 180+/160/170
Turn 5A: 120/100
Turn 5B: 100/120
Turn 5C: 150
Turn 6-7: 180-225
Turn 8: 175/160/130
Turn 9: 130/120/110
Turn 10: 100/115/120

Next track day there will be the guy with the telemetry and I'll see if I can get it setup again so I get video, GPS speed, G's etc.

[Not4you]

also see if I can come be a passenger :rockon:

and yeah, there is a big difference between the gears/speeds with the hp difference.

[MEANMCHN]

also see if I can come be a passenger :rockon:

and yeah, there is a big difference between the gears/speeds with the hp difference.

Ya, of course you can come as a passenger, depending on the weather I'll be there August 19th. I'll have the new suspension in so it's more of a tuning day but I'm sure there will be a few laps that I let it hang :)

[tulowd]

also see if I can come be a passenger :rockon:

and yeah, there is a big difference between the gears/speeds with the hp difference.

and G R I P

[MEANMCHN]

The grip is the scary part. It's not necessarily a "fast" car, it's just immense the amount of grip the 315s out back give.

[Not4you]

and G R I P

how do you mean?

[tulowd]

how do you mean?

good street tires might get you 1.0 g's or thereabouts on a flat corner. R comps maybe 1.3....
race rubber, can get closer to 2g's if there is enough heat in them.


aka; I'm thinking he's not running G/60/15 bias ply's on the car, lol

[MEANMCHN]

BTW, my fastest lap was on an 1/8th tank of gas, just me, with the car on Hoosier R6s. The way it sits is around 1:33-1:35, hoping to dip into the 1:30.X once the new suspension gets dialed.

[HyperGT]

good deal. KW have a great rep, i know i keep,saying things about Porsche but lots of guys run them and like them. Sure JT Ohlins are awesome and serious $$$
MM your laptimes are impressive and as I said the fastest mustang i have seen, and most other street cars for that matter. Clearly an experienced and good driver....dropping 3 sec from just coilovers is a lot to expect though unless you are doing other things as well. Have fun let us know how it works out.

[MEANMCHN]

good deal. KW have a great rep, i know i keep,saying things about Porsche but lots of guys run them and like them. Sure JT Ohlins are awesome and serious $$$
MM your laptimes are impressive and as I said the fastest mustang i have seen, and most other street cars for that matter. Clearly an experienced and good driver....dropping 3 sec from just coilovers is a lot to expect though unless you are doing other things as well. Have fun let us know how it works out.

Ya, it's more than just the coilovers, the steering has had work done to it, new bushings throughout the suspension, knocked out about 30lbs from the car, new rear sway bar and more aggressive alignment for the 19th session. Should be ok for it, it's optimistic for sure, we'll see. Hopefully the guy is there with telemetry system.

[Not4you]

good street tires might get you 1.0 g's or thereabouts on a flat corner. R comps maybe 1.3....
race rubber, can get closer to 2g's if there is enough heat in them.


aka; I'm thinking he's not running G/60/15 bias ply's on the car, lol

ic, then that is not a difference. I was also running hoosiers this season.

[MEANMCHN]

ic, then that is not a difference. I was also running hoosiers this season.

What cold/hot pressures were you running on the Hoosiers? R6s? I usually go 22psi cold and around 26psi hot, seems to work best, it's a little washy for the first lap but they grip great. I'm running R compound Nittos now because I need something treaded, road legal and non-directional as you can only run 2 spares for Targa NFLD. No point getting used to the REALLY sticky stuff anymore.

[ZR]

Interesting on the pressures that are working on yours with Hoosiers. BFG R1's on mine, happiest when I started in the 34-36 range and build to about 40 hot.

[Not4you]

They were a set of Hoosier Cup tires that I got used. 275x17 on all 4 corners. Ran them at about 34 cold, 39 or so hot. so way higher pressure than you. previously I had BFG R1s using the same pressures as ZR mentions above.

honestly, I have never heard of anyone ever running uber tires that low. any more details/tech to share on that??

[ZR]

^^ Neither have I, reason I commented.

[MEANMCHN]

If you're anywhere near 40 psi with R6s you'll over heat them REAL quick - you probably also noticed them under steering (if so, you're running way too much pressure). There's virtually 0 sidewall flex with that tire and that much pressure just makes the whole setup too stiff and you're relying on the compound only to do the gripping. Some people run a lot of pressure because it makes the tire consistent initially (but lacks peak grip). If you're going quickly enough there is very little time spent in a neutral space, you're always turning so there is lateral load on the tire 95% of the time which eliminates the loose feeling.

http://youtu.be/iFniwOkr6R8

Cortex starts at 26 psi cold (probably 30psi hot). I like it softer but it's personal preference and setup. If I run 28-30psi cold (+34psi hot depending on the weather/track temp/sunny/cloudy) once I get into the higher boost levels the tires start to spin. Around 26-28psi hot I find that I can corner in 4th, hit the apex and just put my foot to the floor without having to collect any over steer. Because of the lower pressure I sacrifice a bit of straight line speed (probably 5km/h on the back straight, but I'd rather lose 0.5 second there and pick up 1.5 by being able to use full tits mid corner in 3rd and 4th gear).

[Not4you]

interesting. going to try that out next season - depending on what tire I go with to replace the Hoosiers. for the moment it looks like I may go with the NT-01s.

[MEANMCHN]

This explains it visually why I choose my pressures like this, same car, same setup, same day. The pic sitting in the pit lane is 20-22psi cold (overcast), the cornering pic is around 26-28psi (sunny with higher track temp). The outside front tire is folding under and pushing the camber from -2.75 static to probably +1 at max grip (this corner is 4th gear at about 140km/h). You can see how much sidewall deflection there is between the 2 pictures. Had my cold pressure been +30psi the tires would have looked more like the cornering pic, at 40 psi there would be virtually 0 sidewall deflection and I already would've had to back off because the tread compound would be maxed out and without any sidewall flex to give it that extra 10% grip. Also, the inside front tire that doesn't account for much more than about 10% of the total traction here would've had probably 50% less contact patch at 40psi then at 26-28psi.
15661567

[MEANMCHN]

interesting. going to try that out next season - depending on what tire I go with to replace the Hoosiers. for the moment it looks like I may go with the NT-01s.

NT-01s are great tires, I love them, great thing is that I can drive to and from the track on them and if it starts raining at CTMP, which is super common, the track gets nice and clear when all the slicks guys go back to the pit :)

[Stephen06GT]

MEANMCHN, will you be coming to TMP on Sept. 10?

[RedSN]

^^^^

Damn, Apex day that day... can't pass up CTMP.

[MEANMCHN]

Ya, it's the same day as my September session but it would be good to come out and play with the Mustangs. There's only ever one Boss 302 at the Apex days and we've already determined the victor there ;)

We'll see how the weather/car is feeling. I haven't been to TMP in a long time.