MAT
06-04-2024, 02:47 PM
I have read that Ford has recently up-dated two Technical Service Bullitens (TSBs) regarding Mustangs. I asked a friend who is a recently retired automotive engineer some questions regarding them. One TSB up-date relates to a whining noise in many Ford 10 speed automatic transmissions to now include 2024 models. The second up-date related to the long standing BBQ/Typewriter "tic" relating to the 5.0 Coyotes and is also up-dated to include 2024 engines. He offered some opinions.
In the case of the transmission whine, Ford offered the opinion that it was due to the offset gear drivetrain in the front support and that a "small amount of whine is considered to be a characteristic of the transmissions". My friend said the wording is not totally closed-ended. The wording "small amount of whine noise" is open to interpretation and could lead to a repair in the future if agreement was reached that the noise was loud enough to disrupt enjoyment of the car. He said your dealer would have to push this with Ford. He suggested anyone who has the automatic transmission whine go to their dealer and have the whine listened to, ask the dealer to log the concern on the Ford website and get a written copy. I did this. If a 10 speed transmission actually fails that would be another story and hopefully warrantable. The one problem might be that now Ford has said the whine is not really an issue, owners may have to pay a service charge to have a technician log and file this with Ford. My opinion is that your dealer should do this as a courtesy. After spending a LOT of money it should be the least they will do. In my case the noise is borderline. I sure hear it in any enclosed area and it can reverberate off bridges and close buildings but I don't hear it on the open road. That may change in time. I only have about 1,500 Km on it.
In the case of the longstanding "tic" noise of the 5.0s Ford's recent response appears to close the door on the issue as they have updated the original TSB to include 2024 Ford Mustangs and F-150 trucks. The wording in the up-dated TSB is that "the "tic" is not detrimental to engine function or durability and has no short or long term effects on the engine". My friend believes that this wording warns dealers that any repair will not be reimbursed unless Ford specifically approves in advance - which barring an actual engine failure seems unlikely. My friend's opinion is that dealerships might not even log the concern with Ford as that would take time and they would not be reimbursed for that. My 2024 Mustang does not have the "tic" yet but I have not changed the oil yet, either. My friend suggested IF I do get the "tic" to take my Mustang to the dealer and if he won't log a complaint to Ford to offer to pay a service charge to do so. This I will do. He also advised me to take a video with a log date of the "tic" which I will do too. I have already taken two videos of the transmission whine.
Regarding all of the internet "guessing" about the origins of the "tic" my friend had opinions. If the "tic" is said to be a form of piston slap due to the plasma coating in the cylinders (instead of the old-fashioned metal sleeves), simply de-activate one cylinder at a time. If doing so eliminates the "tic" in one or more cylinders Ford may have a serious problem denying an examination of the cylinder wall(s) and an examination of the piston(s).
He was perplexed as to why this "tic" was associated with the first oil change. He wondered if Ford puts some additive into the oil to prevent the "tic" from the factory. I asked if so, why wouldn't Ford admit an additive was needed and just sell it, geez they could even profit from it. After all there is a lot of internet vidoes of owners adding Ceratec to quiten "tics". His opinion was that because there is very, very little engine failure of 5.0s associated with engine "tics" Ford may deem it cheaper to just replace failed units. If Ford admitted an additive was used at the factory they would likely then be admitting an engine defect and would not only have to supply the additive free, forever but might also be opening themselves to a defective product charge. Again, since the actual engine failure rate is so low the route they have chosen may be to just state the noise is not detrimental and hope for the best.
I said Ford routinely disassembles engines. They have to know what causes this "tic". Why don't they just tell us - then say its not a problem to end all of the speculation. My friend said Ford's legal department would likely stop that dead as it would be an admission of liability and yes, Ford is probably really spooked by all of the internet videos showing the "tic" and now the transmission whine. There are reports that prospective cutomers are coming into dealerships and expressing concerns about these issues. I have heard of potential customers refusing to purchase unless a clause regarding these noises is written into their sales agreement. My friend had not heard that but he said Ford HAS to be spooked by all of the internet traffic and dealers are probably on the hot line frequently with customer complaints - he thinks this is why both TSBs have been up-dated and in particular the TSB referring to the "tic" which now seems to be worded as case closed - no dealership action is advised or warrantied. He also said customers are not usually shown TSBs although the internet posts them all the time. The main function of a TSB is guidance for the delaership techs to fix an issue. The TSB usually lists parts, sequences, torque values stc. but does not explain why because the Techs on flat rate menus don't have the time to read why an issue occured or even really care - they're there to effect the fix. TSBs are not written to explain issues to customers.
Finally, I played a video of a 5.0 "tic" from the internet to him. He said that sounds like an electrical arc to ground fault to me. He asked if anyone had put their car in a completely dark environment and made a video using slow motion framing to see if there is a spark jump anywhere on top of or below the engine.
I hope you all find this interesting. I love my 2024 and can, at the moment, live with the transmission whine. As for the "tic" I think that would really tic me off!
In the case of the transmission whine, Ford offered the opinion that it was due to the offset gear drivetrain in the front support and that a "small amount of whine is considered to be a characteristic of the transmissions". My friend said the wording is not totally closed-ended. The wording "small amount of whine noise" is open to interpretation and could lead to a repair in the future if agreement was reached that the noise was loud enough to disrupt enjoyment of the car. He said your dealer would have to push this with Ford. He suggested anyone who has the automatic transmission whine go to their dealer and have the whine listened to, ask the dealer to log the concern on the Ford website and get a written copy. I did this. If a 10 speed transmission actually fails that would be another story and hopefully warrantable. The one problem might be that now Ford has said the whine is not really an issue, owners may have to pay a service charge to have a technician log and file this with Ford. My opinion is that your dealer should do this as a courtesy. After spending a LOT of money it should be the least they will do. In my case the noise is borderline. I sure hear it in any enclosed area and it can reverberate off bridges and close buildings but I don't hear it on the open road. That may change in time. I only have about 1,500 Km on it.
In the case of the longstanding "tic" noise of the 5.0s Ford's recent response appears to close the door on the issue as they have updated the original TSB to include 2024 Ford Mustangs and F-150 trucks. The wording in the up-dated TSB is that "the "tic" is not detrimental to engine function or durability and has no short or long term effects on the engine". My friend believes that this wording warns dealers that any repair will not be reimbursed unless Ford specifically approves in advance - which barring an actual engine failure seems unlikely. My friend's opinion is that dealerships might not even log the concern with Ford as that would take time and they would not be reimbursed for that. My 2024 Mustang does not have the "tic" yet but I have not changed the oil yet, either. My friend suggested IF I do get the "tic" to take my Mustang to the dealer and if he won't log a complaint to Ford to offer to pay a service charge to do so. This I will do. He also advised me to take a video with a log date of the "tic" which I will do too. I have already taken two videos of the transmission whine.
Regarding all of the internet "guessing" about the origins of the "tic" my friend had opinions. If the "tic" is said to be a form of piston slap due to the plasma coating in the cylinders (instead of the old-fashioned metal sleeves), simply de-activate one cylinder at a time. If doing so eliminates the "tic" in one or more cylinders Ford may have a serious problem denying an examination of the cylinder wall(s) and an examination of the piston(s).
He was perplexed as to why this "tic" was associated with the first oil change. He wondered if Ford puts some additive into the oil to prevent the "tic" from the factory. I asked if so, why wouldn't Ford admit an additive was needed and just sell it, geez they could even profit from it. After all there is a lot of internet vidoes of owners adding Ceratec to quiten "tics". His opinion was that because there is very, very little engine failure of 5.0s associated with engine "tics" Ford may deem it cheaper to just replace failed units. If Ford admitted an additive was used at the factory they would likely then be admitting an engine defect and would not only have to supply the additive free, forever but might also be opening themselves to a defective product charge. Again, since the actual engine failure rate is so low the route they have chosen may be to just state the noise is not detrimental and hope for the best.
I said Ford routinely disassembles engines. They have to know what causes this "tic". Why don't they just tell us - then say its not a problem to end all of the speculation. My friend said Ford's legal department would likely stop that dead as it would be an admission of liability and yes, Ford is probably really spooked by all of the internet videos showing the "tic" and now the transmission whine. There are reports that prospective cutomers are coming into dealerships and expressing concerns about these issues. I have heard of potential customers refusing to purchase unless a clause regarding these noises is written into their sales agreement. My friend had not heard that but he said Ford HAS to be spooked by all of the internet traffic and dealers are probably on the hot line frequently with customer complaints - he thinks this is why both TSBs have been up-dated and in particular the TSB referring to the "tic" which now seems to be worded as case closed - no dealership action is advised or warrantied. He also said customers are not usually shown TSBs although the internet posts them all the time. The main function of a TSB is guidance for the delaership techs to fix an issue. The TSB usually lists parts, sequences, torque values stc. but does not explain why because the Techs on flat rate menus don't have the time to read why an issue occured or even really care - they're there to effect the fix. TSBs are not written to explain issues to customers.
Finally, I played a video of a 5.0 "tic" from the internet to him. He said that sounds like an electrical arc to ground fault to me. He asked if anyone had put their car in a completely dark environment and made a video using slow motion framing to see if there is a spark jump anywhere on top of or below the engine.
I hope you all find this interesting. I love my 2024 and can, at the moment, live with the transmission whine. As for the "tic" I think that would really tic me off!