Big Changes Coming....

[hammerhead]

www.cbc.ca/news/technology/greener-heating-1.5429709?_vfz=medium%3Dsharebar

This is just some of the changes coming for your home in the near future - other changes are out there as well - these changes will have a big effect on your finances and maybe the future value of your home....

[Laffs]

Jack up electricity rates, force people to use electricity for home heating......ya sound thinking ok....

[5.4MarkVIII]

Such bullshit. Talked to people personally that hate their geo thermal because the colder it gets the less efficient it is. And have to be boosted with electricity.
To the tune of hundreds (500-800)of dollars per month in heating bills

If they actually cared about ghg’s they would be embracing the carbon capture tech. But they aren’t.

Forcing everyone to electric is forcing every one into government controlled resources. Sound familiar?

[Mellow Yellow]

We someone had better think this through completely!

I have lived in homes that were heated electrically....they are ridiculously expensive to operate and in my mind very in efficient (even when used in a forced air situation).

Couple this with the advent of electric vehicles can you imagine the power load required on the power system? The renewable (wind in particular) are not efficient not to mention some turbines are now through almost 1/3 of their life expectancy.

This is a disaster waiting to happen.

[Ontariomystic]

I can't see this happening, there is so much natural gas infrastructure in place to just scrap it all. Don't even get me started on the whole heat pumps are efficient topic. Yes they transfer heat which is more efficient than creating it, that's where it ends. Kinda like the electric car is better for the environment...maybe if you didn't have to manufacture or scrap it.

[1BAD92LX]

Had electric heat (don't miss my $500 equal billing bills) natural gas was recently made available and I jumped on it. Installed new natural gas furnace and tankless water heater with out a second thought.
Imagine the load on the electrical system and the power brown outs. Not everyone has a/c but everyone needs heat in the winter

[Screw]

Won’t happen ...those people should go smoke mooore weed

[RedSN]

I can't see this happening, there is so much natural gas infrastructure in place to just scrap it all.
That’s why the proposal is for the UK, not Canada.
Everybody calm down.

We’re not building new gas fired generating plants only to use the power on heat pumps LOL.

[5.4MarkVIII]

our government has talked about it. its being pushed in California. and is worded to be a requirement of the Paris deal (not a definitive date yet)

if you don't think it can happen. watch as the fear mongering and misinformation surrounding climate change continues. people are already signing up for this as the ONLY way forward.

[Screw]

That’s why the proposal is for the UK, not Canada.
Everybody calm down.

We’re not building new gas fired generating plants only to use the power on heat pumps LOL.

:thumbsup:

[Boomer]

Very unlikely in our lifetime...I'm actually looking at getting a new high efficieny NG furnace.

[hammerhead]

This will come here - the Whynn government was getting ready to move on this - I'm not posting this to alarm anyone - just be prepared there's a lot of stuff in the works for this to happen it wont happen overnight...the UK and most of Europe are on course for the Paris Accord we are miles behind and could get a big surprise one day soon. I'm sure the gas plants are not for backup but for future production....

[hammerhead]

They'll need a wood stove police force.

believe me there's a plan for that...

[RedSN]

Montreal already has wood stove police

https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/montreals-wood-burning-ban-starts-oct-1-what-you-need-to-know

[hammerhead]

Montreal already has wood stove police

https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/montreals-wood-burning-ban-starts-oct-1-what-you-need-to-know

yes that's correct...! Here they may do it a bit different - I've followed this kind of stuff for a few years now but it has been quiet since Whynn was booted out - until this story surfaced today

[StAnger]

Liberalism kills commonsense. Glad it's the UK not here.

[Stephen06GT]

The Ontario provincial government just announced that the Ontario Energy Board will soon be accepting applications for the expansion of natural gas into rural areas of Ontario. Natural gas account ls for about 75% of home heating in Ontario.

Taken from TO Sun article from earlier today.

[Foxstang]

Most 80's and 90's homes don't have the electrical system to support electric heating so everyone would have to upgrade to 200 amp panels.

I was designing a heating system though (in my head). Baseboards can be more efficient since you could use motion sensor type thermostats and machine learning to heat up rooms that are being used. Chances are you are using only 2 or 3 out of your 16 rooms and bathrooms (my case anyway) so the system could bring rooms to temp just before it's expecting you to use them. I'm spending to heat my 4000~4500 sqft home (with basement) all the time even if I'm not using all rooms at the same time.

If migrating to electrical grid for heat, I'd think to have a diesel generator as a backup too.

[Foxstang]

Montreal already has wood stove police

https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/montreals-wood-burning-ban-starts-oct-1-what-you-need-to-know

Imagine if that wood stove only had english instructions... then the language police will join the wood stove police.

[5.4MarkVIII]

Most 80's and 90's homes don't have the electrical system to support electric heating so everyone would have to upgrade to 200 amp panels.

I was designing a heating system though (in my head). Baseboards can be more efficient since you could use motion sensor type thermostats and machine learning to heat up rooms that are being used. Chances are you are using only 2 or 3 out of your 16 rooms and bathrooms (my case anyway) so the system could bring rooms to temp just before it's expecting you to use them. I'm spending to heat my 4000~4500 sqft home (with basement) all the time even if I'm not using all rooms at the same time.

If migrating to electrical grid for heat, I'd think to have a diesel generator as a backup too.

Keep in mind sometimes if far more efficient to heat once and then maintain rather then to heat and let cool multiple times as you come in and out of the room.

Also if your just using on off heat your warming the air in the room but not the stuff in it.

Items will warm up with some types of heating and will help carry the heat load.

[hammerhead]

www.markhamdistrictenergy.com

this is an option being experimented with - It's basically a grid tied system that provides heat and energy to the neighbourhood (homes and business don't need furnace or air conditioning units) - I've read about these and how they also recover heat from waste water - I wasn't aware that this was happening right in Markham and its pretty interesting...

[RedSN]

^^^drive by it every morning, huge steam clouds, LOL. My office used to be just a short walk north of the main plant.

Huh, wasn’t aware of the Cornell Centre plant. Thanks for the link. Hmmmm, wonder how I can tie my garage into that?
Seems the hospital is the main customer.

[5.4MarkVIII]

www.markhamdistrictenergy.com

this is an option being experimented with - It's basically a grid tied system that provides heat and energy to the neighbourhood (homes and business don't need furnace or air conditioning units) - I've read about these and how they also recover heat from waste water - I wasn't aware that this was happening right in Markham and its pretty interesting...


its code now in some areas here in ontario to have a heat recovery system on your sewage outflow. basically a copper pipe with a thinner copper pipe wrapped around it. anyone with half a brain can look at it and know that any waste water flowing threw will go by so fast that it will transfer no heat to the water jacket. its code though and stupidly priced for what it is. I know some builders have a single unit. they install for the inspection and then pull out and stick in the next build for that inspection.

this is what happens when the people writing the laws have no idea how things actually work

[5.4MarkVIII]

if they really want to make an impact get people to smarten up with their heating and cooling.

I get to so many houses that have the heat in the winter set to 75 degrees plus, its like a bloody sauna and then Im back in the summer for something else and the AC is cranked and its like 65 degrees in the house. just no happy medium.

my place I'm the opposite. in the winter the furnace doesn't come one until the temp drops below 65. I have a wood stove in the living room where the thermostat is so the furnace never runs unless we are away. or if I don't feed the fire at night.

come summer the AC gets set to around 74.

[hammerhead]

^^^drive by it every morning, huge steam clouds, LOL. My office used to be just a short walk north of the main plant.

Huh, wasn’t aware of the Cornell Centre plant. Thanks for the link. Hmmmm, wonder how I can tie my garage into that?
Seems the hospital is the main customer.

that would be cool - I think this will be the wave for future new housing developments - not sure old neighbourhoods could be retrofitted - If your garage is well insulated maybe you could use some sort of a passive hot water heating system and run it thru radiator type heat exchangers - I'm assuming you don't already have in floor plumbing...

[hammerhead]

its code now in some areas here in ontario to have a heat recovery system on your sewage outflow. basically a copper pipe with a thinner copper pipe wrapped around it. anyone with half a brain can look at it and know that any waste water flowing threw will go by so fast that it will transfer no heat to the water jacket. its code though and stupidly priced for what it is. I know some builders have a single unit. they install for the inspection and then pull out and stick in the next build for that inspection.

this is what happens when the people writing the laws have no idea how things actually work

hahaha on the scam - I seen those pipes didn't know it was code - in these large systems the city's actually divert warm waste water and reuse it to make heat with these types of large grid tied heating/cooling systems...so they are collecting vast amounts and able to benefit from it

[RedSN]

that would be cool - I think this will be the wave for future new housing developments - not sure old neighbourhoods could be retrofitted - If your garage is well insulated maybe you could use some sort of a passive hot water heating system and run it thru radiator type heat exchangers - I'm assuming you don't already have in floor plumbing...
The garage is insulated and sealed with closed cell spray foam. ....and big ‘ol leaky (but insulated) roll up door. Which is fine, because the natural gas heater requires combustion air.

But it would be great if I could tie the house into the hospital central steam plant.

[hammerhead]

The garage is insulated and sealed with closed cell spray foam. ....and big ‘ol leaky (but insulated) roll up door. Which is fine, because the natural gas heater requires combustion air.

But it would be great if I could tie the house into the hospital central steam plant.

I wonder how they charge for it and if there is some sort of meter...? My parents live in a condo with a central heating and cooling system to all the units (I would imagine all high rise work this way) Heat and cooling in their unit is controllable to a certain extent...

[5.4MarkVIII]

how soon till we drill deep enough to use the earths core as a heat source? lol

[5.4MarkVIII]

hahaha on the scam - I seen those pipes didn't know it was code - in these large systems the city's actually divert warm waste water and reuse it to make heat with these types of large grid tied heating/cooling systems...so they are collecting vast amounts and able to benefit from it

I can see being more effective in larger scale. but it takes time to transfer that heat from the source to the water. who wants a giant vat of waste laying around just to collect a few degrees of temp?

[hammerhead]

I can see being more effective in larger scale. but it takes time to transfer that heat from the source to the water. who wants a giant vat of waste laying around just to collect a few degrees of temp?

the waste is pumped thru a closed heat exchange system - the heat from the waste is transferred to fresh water (before it is processed) then in turn is pumped to the end user - there is a system in Vancouver that supplies heat to 30 condo's and a number of other buildings including the Emily Carr University of Art

[hammerhead]

The garage is insulated and sealed with closed cell spray foam. ....and big ‘ol leaky (but insulated) roll up door. Which is fine, because the natural gas heater requires combustion air.

But it would be great if I could tie the house into the hospital central steam plant.

I worked at Campbell soup many many years ago in New Toronto (just a temp job) - I assisted the Mill wright in what they called the power house. It provided steam to process the soup and operate systems in the building - it was quite amazing considering how old it was - I was young and didn't fully understand how it worked (just a grunt to the head guy) but I thought it was pretty amazing and novel considering how old the tech was...

[hammerhead]

low pressure steam condensing would be efficient, but require more maintenance making it a bad choice for multiple small users.

High pressure steam condensing likewise.

hot water systems, easier maintenance but dropping efficiency per length of run. users far from the source would likely be cold in really cold weather.

In all cases users farther from the source would have more expensive runs (longer). Do they have higher transmission fees? Seems fair.

After transmission fees, measurement of usage by BTU should be the metered metric, but how?

Anyone remember the debacle of the "solar highways" project? Sounded great but completely unworkable. Trash crisis, easy fix, edible garbage.

pie in the sky solutions all sound great until the rubber hits the road.

www.dlsc.ca

Here's a story that may interest you - it's a subdivision in Alberta - it gives me a little boner and I'm tempted to try something like this for myself. My big problem is the "High Commander" who continually warns me about prototyping - she not the impressionable woman I fell in love with many years ago and who lived thru many reno's with blood sweat and tears - and it's getting really hard to pull the wool over her eyes...could be the hot flashes too...hahaha

[5.4MarkVIII]

its an interesting project. and If you read up on it. it looks like it works. but the problem is cost. the project says it cost around 7million to complete but there is not much info on if that cost included the houses or if it was just the heating system. they do say that of the 7 million 3 million was on research and development and a repeat system would only cost about 4 million. (that makes me believe that the 4 million is for the cost of the heating/solar system only)

they says they charge each home $60 per month for the solar heating. and there are 52 houses. so that's $37440 per year. divide the 7m by that 37440 and it will take them 186 years to break even, factoring no cost for maintenance.

even if you remove the r&d cost that a community that size will still take 106 years to pay off the build cost.
there is potential and it will depend on economy of scale. more houses equal more solar power but bigger system. but currently at a 76grand buy in (based on current size and cost of test community) that is some serious coin.

[hammerhead]

sunrise today is 8:30, sunset 5:09. At the moment of this message my app says sun angle is 9.3°. not a ton of collection time or angle assuming no snow coverage or temperature effects.

it's quite impressive and designed exactly for what your saying and to work well in winter months with higher sun loss...need to read the whole thing - it's taking geothermal to the next level - some people on here have mentioned bad luck with geothermal - I didn't see any of the details and the workmanship but my guess is it may have not been installed correctly if it is not working well - there's one other geothermal system many people aren't aware of and it works directly from a drilled well that supplies water to the home - My neighbour has a massive system attached to his well - it heats the house and the pool - it also cools the house while heating the pool - it is pretty amazing and works very well - the only down fall to this system is a well need good recover. Not many areas in Ontario can do this on a well, our area is an exception. In fact when I moved into the area and started meeting people - their response to me was, "you live there - your well has the best recovery in the county....lol" I will be selling in a few years if your interested. I think if you read the whole process you may be impressed!

[RedSN]

sunrise today is 8:30, sunset 5:09. At the moment of this message my app says sun angle is 9.3°. not a ton of collection time or angle assuming no snow coverage or temperature effects.
The project is in Calgary. Big Sky country.

Sunniest Places in Canada. Southern Alberta and Saskatchewan form the sun belt of Canada.
https://www.currentresults.com/Weather-Extremes/Canada/sunniest-places.php

[hammerhead]

I'm all for renewables on a personal level. I'm looking into solar panels right now.

being forced to submit to an expensive program is another story.

Hydro was supposed to provide cheap plentiful electricity to Ontarians. Now it's privatized and for profit. Being part of a collective means you're now a slave to that collective. Something as simple as equipment selection could very easily be corrupted to line he pockets of contractors/politicians/others.

This is the problem I for see for everyone and why I think we lag behind Europe in this movement - the government wants their cut and are trying to find ways to make sure we are all taken car of...lol - these new energies will only work with large communities and will be good and improve over time. They will take a long to implement and it's not likely adaptable to established areas - I truly believe with the current tech available now a home can sustain itself for up to 25yrs and that cuts out the government - I've seen solar system available in Ontario (total of grid) for as low as 25,000.00 dollars - not sure what your setting is - If I was living in a home that was built in the 70's and older I would seriously think of selling it and moving on - because energy is not going to come down in price and new standards are going to be implemented that will affect old homes in many ways - this is just my opinion....the government cant run business's, simply because of the unions and wages coupled with pensions - It's a sensitive subject but I think all government jobs will eventually be privatised...they could still become public companies on the TSC and we could invest...? just a thought

[hammerhead]

The project is in Calgary. Big Sky country.

https://www.currentresults.com/Weather-Extremes/Canada/sunniest-places.php

I did not know that...

[RedSN]

Germany is dependent on Russian natural gas because of it's renewables policy
...and equal imports from Norway and the Netherlands (35, 34, 29 % respectively).

[bbriann]

Kind of like the "Free" electricity from wind mills. The total substitized costs to install and operate the break even point where it it paid off the entire head needs be brought down to ground level and more less replaced...nothing is "Free "

[hammerhead]

the point being their conversion to renewables is a failure.

there is no country thats made it work. There are examples of forests being chopped to make way for solar farms. Cutting down a carbon sink to install panels that have a nasty enviro footprint to manufacture followed by a limited life span and destined for landfill in order to please a whining 16 year old doesn't strike me as sound policy.

I think drawing this conclusion is a bit premature - push for renewables is fairly young still (maybe 10yrs. at best) and I haven't heard of any country's report (other than USA) they will stop progress on renewables, but people in the USA continue to make progress as well despite trump - it will be a slow process but I think by 2050 dependence of fossil fuels will be a thing of the past - can't wait I'll be 97 and a half...lol

[5.4MarkVIII]

I think drawing this conclusion is a bit premature - push for renewables is fairly young still (maybe 10yrs. at best) and I haven't heard of any country's report (other than USA) they will stop progress on renewables, but people in the USA continue to make progress as well despite trump - it will be a slow process but I think by 2050 dependence of fossil fuels will be a thing of the past - can't wait I'll be 97 and a half...lol

The us isn’t stopping production of renewables. They are stoping the government forced change

The free market continues to produce and upgrade as the public wants and is willing to pay for.
This is how it should be.

To the extent that I believe the US is actually out performing the other countries that are still in the Paris accord.

[hammerhead]

The us isn’t stopping production of renewables. They are stoping the government forced change

The free market continues to produce and upgrade as the public wants and is willing to pay for.
This is how it should be.

yes I realize that - but they're very much behind as we are...

[hammerhead]

It's been more than a decade. Germany is the engine of Europe, if they can't make it work who will? Nuclear is the obvious answer to reduce fossil fuel use. What do you propose for replacing fossil fuel for aviation?

Fossil fuel is stored solar energy btw.

Germany is phasing out their nuclear - I believe in the next two years - they've replaced all their nuclear energy production with renewable - I believe I read recently they are looking for a safe place to store the waste created by nuclear - they are pushing forward with renewables - they haven't failed - as for aviation - I never fly don't care!...lol The goal of todays government is zero emission homes - aviation can be a new thread! I'm interested in the future of housing and that's what this thread is about...I think?

[5.4MarkVIII]

yes I realize that - but they're very much behind as we are...

I’m not sure they are.

If the end goal is less GHg which is what they are telling us.

Our government wants everyone to belabour the only option is higher taxes and extremely expensive renewables. Which ultimately mean no more fossil fuel usage.

The us is working on carbon capture tech and coupled with cleaner burning set ups equal zero emissions natural gas electric plants.

To me this is better because it’s cheaper it requires less destruction of farm and Forrest land that solar and wind. It’s an upgrade to plants already in existence and it dosnt require the battery back up that devastates the environment with lithium mining and refining.

To me this it the way of the near future. Yes maybe long term as the tech advances and new stuff is discovered we can get to the point of not requiring fossil fuels but I don’t think we are any where near that point yet and that’s not something you can force with bigger government and taxes.

[hammerhead]

I’m not sure they are.

If the end goal is less GHg which is what they are telling us.

Our government wants everyone to belabour the only option is higher taxes and extremely expensive renewables. Which ultimately mean no more fossil fuel usage.

The us is working on carbon capture tech and coupled with cleaner burning set ups equal zero emissions natural gas electric plants.

To me this is better because it’s cheaper it requires less destruction of farm and Forrest land that solar and wind. It’s an upgrade to plants already in existence and it dosnt require the battery back up that devastates the environment with lithium mining and refining.

To me this it the way of the near future. Yes maybe long term as the tech advances and new stuff is discovered we can get to the point of not requiring fossil fuels but I don’t think we are any where near that point yet and that’s not something you can force with bigger government and taxes.

in a sense extracting fossil fuel is no different than any type of mining and likely has its effects of the earth like any other form of mining - there will be no or very few dangerous spills and contamination with renewables - there's good arguments for both sides - the trick to renewables is not the fuel source but the efficiency of the home and that's how I understand the Paris Agreement and maybe that's why Trump broke off Don't want to loss the fuel - the more efficient the home's envelope the less power it needs to maintain - this in the long run will bring down the effects of the high cost of electricity and much less will be needed. If you look deeply to what available in Europe, everything is there to make a home self sustaining - but this will not work with any home - the home needs to be built correctly - it's a complete package idea - if the correct built home is on the grid the cost to operate that home will be much lower than say the cost of running a home that was built 100 years ago - the fuel will always be available and will always be expensive no matter how clean it is - but I think forward thinking is how are we going to use less and that's the part renewables will play. If a person wants to save money on energy the options are available in any form - the key is having the home built correctly. When Germany is successful it will no longer rely on any country for massive amounts of fuel that they can't produce themselves - people who don't comply to this will fall behind - what is the use of having all the natural gas in the world if nobody else buys it...? Just a thought - on the flip side if nobody is buying maybe it will become cheaper but maybe not...the key will be, I think, is to live in a home that uses very little energy.

[5.4MarkVIII]

i don't disagree on some of those points.

although id strongly recommend looking into the effects of lithium mining and refining. its hard to find the info now because of this renewable push but a few years back there were lots of available video's and articles showing the complete devastation caused by these processes. lithium and others are called rare earth metals but its not that they are rare to find your couldn't process them in north America due to the environmental impact. that's why it all comes out of china. (im going off memory here ill have to see if i can find the articles i read them years ago.

as for making a homs self sustaining. yes i agree the better built the home the less it would use. but again there should be a limit on government control .

an example of this is my house i have whats classified as a 1.5 story house because the roof upstairs is sloped. when i bought the house it wa al lap and plaster and vermiculite with wood windows. we gutted the up stairs and re studded with 2x6 for more insulation. and added strapping to increase the insulation in the slopped part of the roof. it is now far far better than it ever was, it was not required in code to do these improvements at the time but i did so by choice to same money on heating long term however today they have changed code regulations and my 100 year old house can no longer grandfathered in. so it would have to meet the R value for new construction. this would mean literally stripping off the entire roof rafters and all and restructuring it in order to meet the required new R value.

if this were the case then it would not have been worth the cost to do the work. so it would have been left with 2 choices. tear it all down and send it to the dump. an build a new house or leave it the way it was and pay extra for heating. to me both those options are worse for the environment than the third option of improving what i can. in this case government intervention has made things worse for the environment while trying to make them better.

[hammerhead]

i don't disagree on some of those points.

although id strongly recommend looking into the effects of lithium mining and refining. its hard to find the info now because of this renewable push but a few years back there were lots of available video's and articles showing the complete devastation caused by these processes. lithium and others are called rare earth metals but its not that they are rare to find your couldn't process them in north America due to the environmental impact. that's why it all comes out of china. (im going off memory here ill have to see if i can find the articles i read them years ago.

as for making a homs self sustaining. yes i agree the better built the home the less it would use. but again there should be a limit on government control .

an example of this is my house i have whats classified as a 1.5 story house because the roof upstairs is sloped. when i bought the house it wa al lap and plaster and vermiculite with wood windows. we gutted the up stairs and re studded with 2x6 for more insulation. and added strapping to increase the insulation in the slopped part of the roof. it is now far far better than it ever was, it was not required in code to do these improvements at the time but i did so by choice to same money on heating long term however today they have changed code regulations and my 100 year old house can no longer grandfathered in. so it would have to meet the R value for new construction. this would mean literally stripping off the entire roof rafters and all and restructuring it in order to meet the required new R value.

if this were the case then it would not have been worth the cost to do the work. so it would have been left with 2 choices. tear it all down and send it to the dump. an build a new house or leave it the way it was and pay extra for heating. to me both those options are worse for the environment than the third option of improving what i can. in this case government intervention has made things worse for the environment while trying to make them better.

I've probably read many of those same stories on lithium - not sure lithium batteries will be around long - they say the old lead batteries last much longer than the lithium when applied to an off grid home. I think eventually solar panels will also disappear for better products

My first two where like your house with the knee walls upstairs and very old as well - not a stitch of insulation when I purchased them...lol I'm sure yours may have been the same and maybe knob and tube....

[RedSN]

lithium and others are called rare earth metals but its not that they are rare to find your couldn't process them in north America due to the environmental impact. that's why it all comes out of china. (im going off memory here ill have to see if i can find the articles i read them years ago.
Lithium is not a rare earth metal (REM). It’s an Alkali Metal.

And it doesn’t all come out of China. Chile, Australia, and Argentina all produce more than China.

edit: doesn’t

[G-ForceJunkie]

Germany is phasing out their nuclear - I believe in the next two years - they've replaced all their nuclear energy production with renewable - I believe I read recently they are looking for a safe place to store the waste created by nuclear - they are pushing forward with renewables - they haven't failed - as for aviation - I never fly don't care!...lol The goal of todays government is zero emission homes - aviation can be a new thread! I'm interested in the future of housing and that's what this thread is about...I think?
The German energy grid is a mess. Extremely expensive, carbon intensive, and still building coal plants. They've successfully convinced people they are a clean energy leader, but the reality is much different.

As of about an hour ago, the German grid was emitting 6.5 times as much CO2 per kWh generated compared to France.

[5.4MarkVIII]

Lithium is not a rare earth metal (REM). It’s an Alkali Metal.

And it does all come out of China. Chile, Australia, and Argentina all produce more than China.

Was a while ago I was reading the article. It was more talking cell phone and computers at the time but all these renewable sources are electronically controlled.

[RedSN]

It was more talking cell phone and computers at the time but...
Except you specifically called out lithium mining and proceeded to repost two false (alternative?) facts.

[5.4MarkVIII]

like I said it was an article that I read years ago, and was open about that in the post, that was talking about new emerging electronic tech that relied on things like rare earth metals and specifically mentioned lithium and its environmental impact in places like china.

[hammerhead]

The German energy grid is a mess. Extremely expensive, carbon intensive, and still building coal plants. They've successfully convinced people they are a clean energy leader, but the reality is much different.

As of about an hour ago, the German grid was emitting 6.5 times as much CO2 per kWh generated compared to France.

yes their going thru a transition - I'm worried we will go thru the same thing - they probably heard Mr. Dress up say he wanted to be the world leader and decided Fughan Dahgin we cant left dat son of Fuddle Duddle beat us - they use a extreme amount of energy if they can reduce that the renewables will make sense but that part of it will take years - |I'm certain at some point we will be under the same stress

[G-ForceJunkie]

yes their going thru a transition - I'm worried we will go thru the same thing - they probably heard Mr. Dress up say he wanted to be the world leader and decided Fughan Dahgin we cant left dat son of Fuddle Duddle beat us - they use a extreme amount of energy if they can reduce that the renewables will make sense but that part of it will take years - |I'm certain at some point we will be under the same stress
If you're an alcoholic (dirty energy grid), and your plan to get off booze is to buy yourself a 40 year supply (coal plants) while you figure out how to stop drinking, then you can call yourself Germany.

http://environmentalprogress.org/big-news/2017/11/7/the-power-to-decarbonize

[hammerhead]

If you're an alcoholic (dirty energy grid), and your plan to get off booze is to buy yourself a 40 year supply (coal plants) while you figure out how to stop drinking, then you can call yourself Germany.

http://environmentalprogress.org/big-news/2017/11/7/the-power-to-decarbonize

this makes sense due to todays demands and the Germans where too aggressive for change - nuclear is clean in a sense and very dangerous - I'm wondering if you work at the Bruce - I think many are missing the point - todays renewable energy can't work with todays demands - the demands will need to change in order for the consumer to absorb the cost and renewables to work. Regardless of what energy is supplied the demands have to change because the cost will not come down. I was surprised to see the Bruce come back online - I haven't followed Ontario's Nuclear much since I left Hydro in '93. Pickering just came online and I was certain Bruce was mothballed and deemed too expensive to repair and re-tube and I cant remember what was instore for Darlington - didn't really care I was young and it didn't mean too much to me and I didn't cringe when I received my monthly hydro bill like today. The story I posted at the at the very first post reads - right at the bottom few paragraphs British Columbia will begin to phase out natural gas by 2025 - that will spread across Canada. Back to Nuclear - the high cost of Nuclear will only keep rising. If demand is curved renewables will make sense and will in the long run be cheaper to maintain and be safer for the community. Recent scare in Pickering and I remember spills when I worked with Hydro. My house has 6 electric base board heaters in the basement - In the past I needed to use them occasionally. When they kicked in for a month my bill went from 350 - 1200 dollars a month. I use propane now. If the gas supply is taken away and the only option is hydro and I know have to put baseboard heaters throughout the rest of my house - I think I can expect to pay 3000 dollars a month to heat my house. At that cost it would be cheaper to invest in making my own energy....Nuclear wont make my hydro cheaper. There will be only so many options for anyone to afford to heat there home. This thread was started because of the natural gas being removed from the grid and replaced with Hydro - I believe Legwound introduced Germany and all the other green mumbo-jumbo hate. Renewables will work, the infrastructure is just not ready for it, and in my opinion they are going at it the wrong way. (the renewables that is) - when infrastructure catch's up, renewables will be the cheaper and safer option. Germany just outpaced the infrastructure. I'm more concerned with my future not Germany's.

[Screw]

I’m leaning towards this way of life lol

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-UbUksm4nPn5yT4y39QDfZarNiCpRBEN

[Screw]

for those who think CO2 is the big enemy. a quick primer on climate and data tampering

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulWvj49kef4

- - - Updated - - -



sounds sustainable, but where's the women?


I think she joined him in the last few episodes lol

[Blackmare]

I’m leaning towards this way of life lol

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-UbUksm4nPn5yT4y39QDfZarNiCpRBEN

Now that looks peaceful.

[Screw]

Now that looks peaceful.

Stayed in a few log cabins over the holidays, none off grid but very basic necessities, peaceful ...absolutely

[hammerhead]

I find it hard to believe a woman will choose to leave the coddled female centric society where she has all the benefits, and no accountability.

if you can breath through your ears - anything can happen...!

[hammerhead]

While eating my samidge thought I would look up nuclear...seems its not as dead, as I thought, for the last 30yrs.

www.advancednuclearenergy.org