Rented a Tesla 3

[bluetoy]

Let me preface this by saying I am a huge Tesla fan.

Thanks to Turo I was able to rent a Model 3 for the weekend. It was a 2019 standard range plus. EPA rate 402 km range. I picked it up Sat morning. It was sunny and dry. On my drive home of about 40 km I used autopilot as much as I could. I can say the autopilot is pretty good. However it is also pretty bad. I found it way overreacted to cars pulling out form side streets etc. They had plenty of room and pulled out safely. The 3 slams on the brakes every time. Also when someone slows and changes lanes to exit or turn the 3 keeps slowing far beyond what would be considered normal. Auto pilot does work great in traffic in the city. It does like to showcase the acceleration of the 3 though. I found myself driving with the car set in chill mode instead of standard mode to keep the drag race launches to a minimum. Maybe thats just me getting used to it. I found it to be far from smooth even when the road was clear. The steering wasn't rock steady, it tended to always be moving the wheel ever so slightly. Acceleration even in highway situations was overly aggressive and abrupt. I had several instances of the car hitting the brakes for no reason and when using the lane change feature it would sometimes swerve abruptly back to the original lane part way through the lane change. After using autopilot all weekend as much as possible I found it to be more of a party trick than something I would actually use.

Range anxiety does exist. Add rain and colder temps to the mix and you can forget what the epa says. I found myself worrying about range all the time. There is a supercharger 30 km from my house and one located downtown as well. I live outside the city. Most EV chargers around here require 6-7 hours to fully charge your car. They are not conveniently located near anywhere you want to park at. I found myself sitting at a level 2 charger last night from 11:20 to 12:05 am just to give me a few more KM's charge to get home. At home I only had a 115 plug to charge it but by this morning it showed 93 km's of range. The supercharger was easily in reach. Well good thing I had 90 kms because after my 30 km highway drive at 110 km on auto pilot I had 25 kms remaining when I arrived at the supercharger. They are fast. Charged the car over the recommended 80% charge up to 350 k range in about 45 minutes. I drove about 210 kms today and found myself sitting at the same level 2 charger for 30 minutes just to get 15 km more range to make it downtown to get another supercharge. I was at 4km remaining when I got there. I found that the epa 402 km means 100% charge level in perfect conditions with no A/C on and no lights on. Real world I would say to be comfortable you need to be at a charger every 200 kms. I'm sure having a home charge station would make a huge difference but I don't have one and the dryer plug that was supposed to come with it wasn't there. It just wouldn't work for my lifestyle and that makes me sad.

Over all the model 3 is a fantastic car. Take away the electric car stuff and it would still stand out in it's price range. It is well thought out and well executed. The large screen with all the controls in it is actually nice to use. The minimalist style interior looks and functions great. The interior materials were outstanding. As I said even with out being an electric car it still would stand out in its price range. Car is very comfortable and very quiet. There is road noise, more than I was hoping for but livable. The door handles are a bit clunky to use. I am glad I rented it because it will save me 55000 bucks. To bad because as I said before I love Teslas. I have to say once you get used to one pedal driving you'll love it. You'll also love never ever having to change the brakes. Also for being just a standard range plus RWD 3 it accelerates like nobodies business. I'd love to drive a performance model 3 or S.

I still think Teslas are awesome but I also think real world range is no where near epa range. There needs to be way more infrastructure in place and all the chargers need to be level 3 high speed chargers. Level 2 is about 30-50 km range per hour. A supercharger can go into the 6 - 700 km range per hour charge rate. It's coming. Just not here yet. 1000 km epa range might be livable. Then you could realistically expect 600 km per charge. Keep in mind that it is not recommended to charge over 80% on a regular basis also not recommended to go below 10% charge (which I did 3 times in 2 days).

If I have any facts about chargers wrong it's because I've been on a steep learning curve since yesterday morning. I do know one thing, you'll need 4 or 5 apps to cover your bases for public charging. They are not all the same and even if they are free you'll need a membership to use it.


https://i.imgur.com/JiipZCt.jpg

[Screw]

Thanks interesting insight

[WidowrRacing]

I’d rather have a GT500, 350R, Demon, Redeye, ZL1, Z06 and the list would go on and ON.....

[RedSN]

Real world I would say to be comfortable you need to be at a charger every 200 kms. ]
Not bad considering I drive about 50 km per day. Charge it overnight in the garage (I have 220V), I would have no problem with range.

My wife drive 7 kms per day, she could go all month!

[stangstevers]

I do 120km per day on average and want an electric as my next ride. The thought of not having to pump gas each week in the -40 weather getting yelled at in Punjabi for leaving the engine running is worth it alone.

[True Blue]

I would love to know what kind of range these cars get in -30 temps? Just the thought of having to always remember not to charge over 80% or go below 10% on a regular basis, plus having to deal with range anxiety. Yeah no thanks, I'll gladly stand at the pumps for 5min once every 1-2 weeks with a smile on my face.

[ZR]

Been in one, drove one, impressive performance but combo of road noise and ride felt more like a cheap-ish vs expensive car.
Did I mention how freakin fast it is??
Wonder how many laps it would do at the track............... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Laffs]

Great review, thank you for posting. So overall if you had to summarize it would be that it's an impressive car but the technology and infrastructure still have a ways to go before one could be considered a viable worry-free transportation solution for the masses?

[Quicksilver]

My urologist has a Tesla. He bought it almost 5 years ago so it was one of the first. He's currently got over 200,000 KM on it and says it's the best car he ever had. He took it to Ottawa 2 years ago and had no problem with range.

[hammerhead]

Thanks for sharing - confirmed some questions and concerns - I often think of electric for my commute but couldn't afford one that would come close to range I would want - saw an older couple in a leaf last year in the dead of winter and they had frost on the inside of their windows - freezing rain or snow would have finished them- I'm can only imagine - someday I may own one but will also never give up gasoline unless forced too....

also- would be nice to get a cost comparative on gasoline vs electricity - I currently spend about 350-450 a month to power my home with Hydro - currently with my new v8 I spend about 700/month for 5000 kilometers - with the right gasoline vehicle I have average 350-400/month covering the same 5000 kilometers per month I achieved in the past - I was always curious how much hydro I would spend with an electric car if I commuted in this fashion (I'm not asking if you can provide this info - just a thought I've always had)

[Ponyryd]

^Keep in mind hydro rates will surely go up as demand increases, and fuel taxes dry up........

Thx for the review op.

[hammerhead]

^Keep in mind hydro rates will surely go up as demand increases, and fuel taxes dry up........

Thx for the review op.

I'm not convinced gasoline will get cheaper if anything I think the price will rise as the demand gets lower - but electricity will surely go up and will definitely be on the same scale as gasoline if not more - I would think a charging station will cost more than charging at home - Ontario has several backup hydro stations powered with natural gas just waiting to be fired up and then the added cost of more Hydro employment to meet the demand...the government really doesn't do anything to make it more affordable for us - at the end of the day for myself it needs to be cost effective before I would seriously make the move to invest in it and at my age not sure I will ever own electric...just look at grow op loses

[RedSN]

^Keep in mind hydro rates will surely go up as demand increases, and fuel taxes dry up........

Price of gasoline is almost surely to go up as well.
I can generate my own electricity. I can't make my own gasoline.
Would take maybe 30 250W panels on the garage roof.

[hammerhead]

Price of gasoline is almost surely to go up as well.
I can generate my own electricity. I can't make my own gasoline.
Would take maybe 30 250W panels on the garage roof.

can enough power be made to achieve this...? I often thought of this too

[RedSN]

For my daily commute, and the average radiant energy for Markham, I would need about 20m^2 of panels on my roof. Doable.

[hammerhead]

20m^2 is a language beyond me...lol I would start out with two and keep plugging ,more in until I had enough....lol

[RedSN]

LOL, sorry, metric, engineer.

about 200 sq.ft.

[hammerhead]

I'm of the red neck variety... I would love to put a system together (off grid) but just cant grip the how too and want to build it myself - electricity talk just goes over my head - one day I will just start buying stuff and putting it together...

[83 5.0]

My boss has the plug in Prius, which can run on gas if needed. He went over 2 months without running the engine. His condo won't allow a charger, so he tops up at work drives about 60 - 70 kms a day.

[Ponyryd]

I wasn’t implying fuel would become cheaper, but that if there were less fuel to be taxed-they would be low on revenue and tax something else.
Only thing I would consider would be a hybrid. Solar/wind just aren’t that efficient or worthwhile in our region.
Electrics have incredible thrust, but suffer from heat soak worse that a PD supercharged car, much worse.

[RedSN]

...suffer from heat soak worse that a PD supercharged car, much worse.
How fast are you driving to work!? LOL





Solar/wind just aren’t that efficient or worthwhile in our region.
Pretty windy in the Windsor area.

The 270MW South Kent Wind Farm, located in the Chatham-Kent municipality of Ontario, is the biggest wind farm in Canada.
And Sarnia is home of one of Ontario's largest Solar farms (97 MW)

[Laffs]

LOL, sorry, metric, engineer.

about 200 sq.ft.

So you're the one always sending me metric prints.

[Ponyryd]

How fast are you driving to work!? LOL


Pretty windy in the Windsor area.

And Sarnia is home of one of Ontario's largest Solar farms (97 MW)

As fast as possible :) but ZR made a comment about how long they would be quick, or how many runs they could make, so it wa sin response to that.
As for wind turbines, from what I’ve read they’re not efficient, not cheap to install, not cheap to remove, and end up in a landfill at a huge expense. My grandpa has one on his property, pretty sure he gets $1200/yr to rent them the land.

[hammerhead]

How fast are you driving to work!? LOL





Pretty windy in the Windsor area.

And Sarnia is home of one of Ontario's largest Solar farms (97 MW)

we have a lot of wind power in our region - good place for them not sure if they are worth it tho - I understand if they turn too fast (in strong wind) they don't produce - there's also a massive solar farm, quite a sight to see - I don't know much about it and was quite surprised when I saw it

[RedSN]

As fast as possible :) but ZR made a comment about how long they would be quick, or how many runs they could make, so it wa sin response to that.
ah, gotcha :thumbsup:


The formula e cars lap for 45 minutes, they seem to do okay.
And they had a Tesla race series

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp/YBMZGgM2/s6/egt-october-paul-ricard-testing-2016-tesla-model-s-p85-testing-7406366.jpg
https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp/YBrgJKWY/s6/egt-tesla-p100d-testing-2018-tesla-p100d-testing-8578274.jpg

[hammerhead]

LOL, sorry, metric, engineer.

about 200 sq.ft.

That doesn't seem like a lot - how many batteries would you think - and what voltage is required would you need an inverter or could you use 12 - 24 - or 48 volt system an bypass inverter - are electric cars 12 volt...?

[hammerhead]

ah, gotcha :thumbsup:


The formula e cars lap for 45 minutes, they seem to do okay.
And they had a Tesla race series

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp/YBMZGgM2/s6/egt-october-paul-ricard-testing-2016-tesla-model-s-p85-testing-7406366.jpg
https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp/YBrgJKWY/s6/egt-tesla-p100d-testing-2018-tesla-p100d-testing-8578274.jpg

I think I could stay awake long enough to finish a race that length....lol

[Scrape]

I was just surrounded by them half an hour ago. A white one behind me and a red one in front of me. They are swarming me lol.

[5.4MarkVIII]

Price of gasoline is almost surely to go up as well.
I can generate my own electricity. I can't make my own gasoline.
Would take maybe 30 250W panels on the garage roof.

government limits what hydro you can generate. and has out lawed some types of home based power generation. (water fed generators)

[StAnger]

Hideously ugly cars... And they're electric pieces of shit ....

[5.4MarkVIII]

Well ...... okay

[bluetoy]

Great review, thank you for posting. So overall if you had to summarize it would be that it's an impressive car but the technology and infrastructure still have a ways to go before one could be considered a viable worry-free transportation solution for the masses?

I would say that exactly.

[bluetoy]

Thanks for sharing - confirmed some questions and concerns - I often think of electric for my commute but couldn't afford one that would come close to range I would want - saw an older couple in a leaf last year in the dead of winter and they had frost on the inside of their windows - freezing rain or snow would have finished them- I'm can only imagine - someday I may own one but will also never give up gasoline unless forced too....

also- would be nice to get a cost comparative on gasoline vs electricity - I currently spend about 350-450 a month to power my home with Hydro - currently with my new v8 I spend about 700/month for 5000 kilometers - with the right gasoline vehicle I have average 350-400/month covering the same 5000 kilometers per month I achieved in the past - I was always curious how much hydro I would spend with an electric car if I commuted in this fashion (I'm not asking if you can provide this info - just a thought I've always had)

I can tell you that a charge to 295 kms range from 4 kms range at a Tesla supercharger cost $14.30. That is not cheap especially since 295 km range doesn't mean 295 kms. It would be between 200 and 250 depending on conditions. Charging at the level 2 charger was $1.00 per hour and it was charging in the 30 to 40 kms per hour range. I saw prices up to $2 per hour. Did not go there to see how fast it charged. There are free charge stations as well.

[5.4MarkVIII]

Anyone know what service costs are like?

I know there is not oils chenges. But do they use coolant at all?

Are there recommended intervals for checking breaks etc etc? Or do you just drive it until it tells you there is a problem?

[hammerhead]

Hideously ugly cars... And they're faggy electric pieces of shit.

Did the owner include the complimentary butt plug and pride flag too?

hahaha maybe try listening to some Ann Murray to sooth the senses...:stickpoke: I thought they looked pretty cool with a wide body kit

[hammerhead]

I can tell you that a charge to 295 kms range from 4 kms range at a Tesla supercharger cost $14.30. That is not cheap especially since 295 km range doesn't mean 295 kms. It would be between 200 and 250 depending on conditions. Charging at the level 2 charger was $1.00 per hour and it was charging in the 30 to 40 kms per hour range. I saw prices up to $2 per hour. Did not go there to see how fast it charged. There are free charge stations as well.

For me that would a little better than my current vehicle - I'm at about 20$'s per day for my v8 which is good for a v8 and better than most v6's I've owned, and that's with conscious conservative driving - the drive home for me would use up most of the charge I think, due to the consistent up hill climb so maybe not much better tho - as I travel 150-200 per day six days a week and Sunday is random pending dads taxi - thanks for the insight always wondered if there would be some kind of savings but I think they have it all figured out - for the city tho I think a small electric would be awesome or any electric for that matter

come to think of it I've been running with 94 so it may be fairly equal in travel expense but I would think charging at home would be cheaper

[Harbinger]

I’d rather have a GT500, 350R, Demon, Redeye, ZL1, Z06 and the list would go on and ON.....Ya if a tesla cost 30k after taxes it would make sense, otherwise its an over priced ev toy

Sent from my SM-N960W using Tapatalk

[Harbinger]

I'm of the red neck variety... I would love to put a system together (off grid) but just cant grip the how too and want to build it myself - electricity talk just goes over my head - one day I will just start buying stuff and putting it together...Until they make solar panels last longer and more efficient itll take decades before you get a return on savings...from what i read

Sent from my SM-N960W using Tapatalk

[5.4MarkVIII]

my Dad did a micro fit. his projections were 10 plus years to pay off with his savings on his hydro bill.

he has since complained that the pay back isn't what he was led to believe it would be. and the hydro company numbers don't always match is log. he also found out on set up that if he dosnt have power the system shuts down. as in if the power goes out the solar system shuts down and more importantly you cant disconnect from hydro and be self sustaining. meaning your still on the hook for delivery and service charges.

[hammerhead]

Until they make solar panels last longer and more efficient itll take decades before you get a return on savings...from what i read

Sent from my SM-N960W using Tapatalk

yes - I believe this to be correct - many years ago I looked into the cost and it was something like 25 years before I would see a return with an off grid system...

[RedSN]

I can tell you that a charge to 295 kms range from 4 kms range at a Tesla supercharger cost $14.30. That is not cheap especially since 295 km range doesn't mean 295 kms. It would be between 200 and 250 depending on conditions.
Even using your conservative numbers: $14.30 / 200 km = 0.07 $/km
My truck gets about 8 km/L, so: $1.15 / 8 km = 0.14 $/km

That's half the price (even at a supercharger).

[RedSN]

government limits what hydro you can generate. and has out lawed some types of home based power generation. (water fed generators)
Outlawed?

Source?
Can't find anything about outlawing any kind of renewable energy sources. In fact, they promote it for net metering.

https://www.ontario.ca/page/save-your-energy-bill-net-metering

No limit on how much you can generate for yourself. There's a limit on how much 'credit' you can bank.

[hammerhead]

Outlawed?

Source?
Can't find anything about outlawing any kind of renewable energy sources. In fact, they promote it for net metering.

https://www.ontario.ca/page/save-your-energy-bill-net-metering

No limit on how much you can generate for yourself. There's a limit on how much 'credit' you can bank.

I think it is difficult to be off grid or to get off grid once on - I'm not 100% sure - but I think if someone was to try and cancel their Hydro and have the meter removed they may get into some difficulties with the gout, again I'm not 100% sure of this with that in mind it think that's part of the reason for the delivery charge...grid tied I think is not an issue

[Ponyryd]

yes - I believe this to be correct - many years ago I looked into the cost and it was something like 25 years before I would see a return with an off grid system...

At which time the system would most likely need to be replaced due to inefficiency.....

[hammerhead]

Even using your conservative numbers: $14.30 / 200 km = 0.07 $/km
My truck gets about 8 km/L, so: $1.15 / 8 km = 0.14 $/km

That's half the price (even at a supercharger).

My numbers aren't aren't extremely accurate I just ball parked it and always over shoot and fluctuate pending my driving - I've had it down to 20/day with the v8 at 90K/hour all highway and no extra driving on a 5 day span - I would use more charge on the drive home for sure because of the constant climb for about 80kilometers - this is noticeable with the gas. The drive down with gas is like coasting much of the way - not sure if electric would coast not sure what kind of driving bluetoy was doing - but overall charging from home would be cheaper I would think, but I also think and have been thru this before the end cost of the vehicle will negate any savings I think... It's always been cheaper for me to dive beaters with almost virtually no investment - many time people have just given me their junk and I pay more for gas and less on insurance and still come out ahead - currently beaterless right now...lol

[hammerhead]

At which time the system would most likely need to be replaced due to inefficiency.....

exactly and I just decided not to pursue it

[5.4MarkVIII]

Outlawed?

Source?
Can't find anything about outlawing any kind of renewable energy sources. In fact, they promote it for net metering.

https://www.ontario.ca/page/save-your-energy-bill-net-metering

No limit on how much you can generate for yourself. There's a limit on how much 'credit' you can bank.

in Europe its common practice to make use of waterways on private land. people install turbines and make hydro. this is illegal in Ontario.

there is a limit on the size of installation IF you are connected to the grid. but if yous off the grid then you are off the grid. no switching back and forth as you need or like.

my dad tried to get into the FIT program for solar panels and was told there is not enough capacity in the grid in his area. se he had to go with a micro FIt instead.

[RedSN]

in Europe its common practice to make use of waterways on private land. people install turbines and make hydro. this is illegal in Ontario.
No it’s not, provided you get proper land use approval.

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/engineer/ge_bib/micro.htm

[Harbinger]

This! The sadness in my eyes when i did the math buying a 2020 corolla/honda civic vs keeping my 98 v6 Camry. The gas savings from the new car was destroyed by a double on insurance and the monthly payments. So even if i had to replace my entire drive line in the camry id still save tons of money.

Until gas becomes unbearably expensive, 1000 to 2000 dollar beaters will cost the least to maintain, drive and insure

Sent from my SM-N960W using Tapatalk

[5.4MarkVIII]

No it’s not, provided you get proper land use approval.

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/engineer/ge_bib/micro.htm

sweet, must be a recent change. I was looking into it a few years ago and it was not allowed.

[ChickenLips]

any more recent range and cost per KM numbers with inflation and cold weather experience?

[bluetoy]

any more recent range and cost per KM numbers with inflation and cold weather experience?

I just rented it. It made me realize that EV is not on my shopping list at all. My recommendation is go rent one from Turo. Try it for a few days. See if you can live with it. Owning an electric car will likely require a lifestyle change.

[Scrape]

Been there done that. Owned my Model 3 Performance from November 2021 until April 2022. I lived in a condo where I had no charger and was dependent on Tesla's supercharger. It cost me more than gas for my car on a monthly basis.

[ChickenLips]

Been in a discussion with a guy from Guelph who owns an EV (brand unknown) who insists solar, wind and EV's are entirely practical. Not a dumb guy, high end tech job. I know the algo's tend to feed you more of what you consume and they've been feeding me anti climate change stuff so I'm trying to be open minded.

Brings to mind a recent exchange I had with heat pump program pushers recently. I may write up my experience on that.

[Ponyryd]

Buddy of mine is using his mom’s Model 3 this week, it’s a RWD and he said it is un-driveable in the snow-instant torque and rwd means it’s sideways right away and traction control kicks in (apparently un-defeatable) at any hint of slip. He got stuck in 6” of snow at the end of his driveway and had to be towed out by a neighbour…also said when taking a corner and letting off the throttle that the regenerative braking will toss the car in the opposite direction of the corner, which is very hard to control. Car has winter tires, brand new last month.
Personally I see no use for them aside from maybe a downtown/urban setting in a warm climate, or maybe as a second/third car. I don’t hate them, or the tech, but I strongly disagree with the government mandating them, or offering subsidies on them-that’s complete crap.

[cudaboy]

2 points to consider... What gets taxed to take the place of revenue lost due to declining gas taxes. .......Cost of replacing batteries when they wear out. Warranties dont last forever.

[Scrape]

My friend just shared this. He has a Model 3 Performance. "I got 59 km for my last full charge 90% to 29%" Just for reference he parks his car outside all year long.

[5.4MarkVIII]

just saw a news video last night apparently somewhere in the states it got "to cold" for the tesla charging stations to actually charge cars. lot ended up filling up with cars that ran themselves down to 0 trying to keep the batteries warm and they had to be towed out to a dealer to get re charged. also saw a video about the Hyundai electric. guy hit something on the road and the batterie was damaged, insurance wrote the car off after the estimate came back and 65k to replace the batterie.

[ZR]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFAtqWOaEgg

[hammerhead]

Been in a discussion with a guy from Guelph who owns an EV (brand unknown) who insists solar, wind and EV's are entirely practical. Not a dumb guy, high end tech job. I know the algo's tend to feed you more of what you consume and they've been feeding me anti climate change stuff so I'm trying to be open minded.

Brings to mind a recent exchange I had with heat pump program pushers recently. I may write up my experience on that.

I think it could be practical if every home provided their own power as a stand alone and was tied into the grid or a generator for supplement power. This would be advantageous to the home owner but not the government. Would also be difficult for apartments.

[ChickenLips]

My friend just shared this. He has a Model 3 Performance. "I got 59 km for my last full charge 90% to 29%" Just for reference he parks his car outside all year long.

any idea what the charge cost?

[ChickenLips]

just saw a news video last night apparently somewhere in the states it got "to cold" for the tesla charging stations to actually charge cars. lot ended up filling up with cars that ran themselves down to 0 trying to keep the batteries warm and they had to be towed out to a dealer to get re charged. also saw a video about the Hyundai electric. guy hit something on the road and the batterie was damaged, insurance wrote the car off after the estimate came back and 65k to replace the batterie.

Yes I saw that story. As with any news, worst case, most outrageous, biggest, worst click bait will float to the top. Not doubting the veracity but pondering how common. I do know a service guy at Hyundai who says the ev side is a total shit show though.

[ChickenLips]

I asked my Guelph guy how he would handle a last minute trip from Guelph to Ottawa in this weather. No reply.

I suppose my Q could be viewed as trolling but to me it is a ligit Q.

IMO EV's are great for short haul and when paired with the lowest cost charging and sheltered parking. I have no real experience to back up my opinion, and therefore feel unqualified to take a hard position other than not suitable for my needs (and way out of budget).

I also hesitate to enlist another device that feeds my info to central command and can be controlled by someone other than myself, but that's my tinfoil hat talking.

[Scrape]

He goes to a public charger and pays $5 for parking and gets his car charged there. 240V charger. Does it twice a week normally.
any idea what the charge cost?

[ChickenLips]

He goes to a public charger and pays $5 for parking and gets his car charged there. 240V charger. Does it twice a week normally.

that sounds cheap. I wonder if that's subsidized, if not it's a win for EV over ICE.

[Scrape]

Yes, subsidized.
that sounds cheap. I wonder if that's subsidized, if not it's a win for EV over ICE.

[bluetoy]

https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tesla-switches-to-kwh-billing-at-superchargers-in-canada/

In other news. There is another Hyundai Written off due to a small dent in the battery. $60k just for the battery plus labour and tax.

[ChickenLips]

that sounds like a design issue, class action kinda thing.

[Ponyryd]

2 points to consider... What gets taxed to take the place of revenue lost due to declining gas taxes. .......Cost of replacing batteries when they wear out. Warranties dont last forever.

Some state (WA?) was charging EV owners a surcharge on their license plate renewal, the surcharge was the same for everyone regardless of how much you drive, which sounds weird to me. As for the batteries, they carry a better warranty than ICE cars do last I heard, I think 12 years? Regardless, if you priced out a new engine from the dealer and compared it to a new battery I’d bet they’re fairly close in cost.

Something relevant here is that Hertz rent a car is selling off 20k of their ev fleet to go back to ice…Im sure there plenty of reasons

[ChickenLips]

EV's are heavier, tougher on roads and infrastructure, although probably not much more than sport ute's. Anyway a heavier object needs more energy to move and stop. I dunno what the efficiency differences between ICE vehicles of comparable weight to a UV but my gut tells me UV's total energy input per KM (ignoring build costs) has to be higher than that of ICE vehicles. Cost per unit energy in gas/diesel vs cost per unit energy electric will be the decider I suppose. Rambling but my point is a heavier UV looks to me to be a bigger energy consumer unless those regenerative brakes are close to a perpetual motion machine.

[bluetoy]

There are plenty of videos on youtube talking about electrify america charge points. If I recall correctly I've seen costs around $100 usd to charge a Rivian. It's not that high here yet but I can tell you it's going to be.

[hammerhead]

Charging solution

38351

[Ponyryd]

^Basically the “worst of both worlds”, lol.

[bluetoy]

That is a pretty cool car. Looks like it's the one Rich Rebuilds (on youtube) built. Its very well done, keeping all the Tesla tech but adding an LS manual trans from a Camaro.

[hammerhead]

^Basically the “worst of both worlds”, lol.

Haha —after owning a coyote for five years I'm not sure its any better lol and I now second guess using one for an engine swap.

[ChickenLips]

My discussion with the EV fanatic has once again shown me I'm an idiot for wasting time.

he posted this and declared "See EV's are better".

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No context on the type of calls, the age of vehicles any other qualifying info. Nothing but assumptions.

When I pointed this out I got a lengthy word salad and another logical fallacy "declaration of authority" statement.


I'm the idiot for even engaging, and yes that applies here too.

[Ponyryd]

That is a pretty cool car. Looks like it's the one Rich Rebuilds (on youtube) built. Its very well done, keeping all the Tesla tech but adding an LS manual trans from a Camaro.

I don’t use YouTube much but I’m pretty sure it was a black dude, I remember him cutting parts off the Camaro donor. It’s a “cool thing to do” but nothing else, the car is basically ruined to anyone in the general public, but most car guys know about it, so that’s something I guess.

EVs hate cold. This is a poor c/p so people don’t need to click a link.

Model Range Lost Below Freezing
2021-2022 Audi E-Tron 16%
2019 Nissan Leaf 23%
Tesla Model 3 Long Range 24%
Tesla Model X 100D 24%
Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD 24%
2022-2023 Ford F-150 Lightning Extended Range 26%
Tesla Model S 90D 28%
2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E Premium AWD Extended Range 34%
2020-2021 Hyundai Kona Electric 34%
2015 Nissan Leaf 34%
2017-2022 Chevy Bolt 42%
2021 Volkswagen ID.4 46%

[5.4MarkVIII]

Wonder why Audi is a comparatively low loss?

I think they are use a higher output then the rest iirc wonder of that why

[hammerhead]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KmsVytiMDg

tesla swap at sema

[bluetoy]

I don’t use YouTube much but I’m pretty sure it was a black dude, I remember him cutting parts off the Camaro donor. It’s a “cool thing to do” but nothing else, the car is basically ruined to anyone in the general public, but most car guys know about it, so that’s something I guess.

EVs hate cold. This is a poor c/p so people don’t need to click a link.

Model Range Lost Below Freezing
2021-2022 Audi E-Tron 16%
2019 Nissan Leaf 23%
Tesla Model 3 Long Range 24%
Tesla Model X 100D 24%
Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD 24%
2022-2023 Ford F-150 Lightning Extended Range 26%
Tesla Model S 90D 28%
2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E Premium AWD Extended Range 34%
2020-2021 Hyundai Kona Electric 34%
2015 Nissan Leaf 34%
2017-2022 Chevy Bolt 42%
2021 Volkswagen ID.4 46%

These are very misleading numbers. They do not factor in heaters and snow etc. In reality you can expect more like 40% loss or more.

[ZR]

Haha —after owning a coyote for five years I'm not sure its any better lol and I now second guess using one for an engine swap.

You know there are Coyote owners around the globe hating on you for that comment. ;)

[hammerhead]

You know there are Coyote owners around the globe hating on you for that comment. ;)

lol —I'm thinking of a 2JZ swap for my F150 hahaha that should smooth things over

[ZR]

^ I also don't consider it the holly grail so many worship.

[Scrape]

I would only go with a Coyote motor for reliability and modification factors.

[Ponyryd]

Wonder why Audi is a comparatively low loss?

I think they are use a higher output then the rest iirc wonder of that why


Dunno, but it’s an expensive flagship car, maybe it’s super-insulated compared to the others? I was initially thinking it was some kind of German engineering trick, but then I looked at the VW, lol

[ChickenLips]

lol —I'm thinking of a 2JZ swap for my F150 hahaha that should smooth things over

I'm team 1UZ, 3UZ on the Japanese side

[RedSN]

EVs hate cold. This is a poor c/p so people don’t need to click a link.
Love the post with factual statistics! :clap2:

But any debate needs the other side represented. Where are the stats on ICE in the cold?
Not as bad as EV’s, but still a good 15% in the same cold.

[5.4MarkVIII]

Love the post with factual statistics! :clap2:

But any debate needs the other side represented. Where are the stats on ICE in the cold?
Not as bad as EV’s, but still a good 15% in the same cold.

I've never owned a car or truck that got 15% decrease in range in the cold.

[ChickenLips]

These are very misleading numbers. They do not factor in heaters and snow etc. In reality you can expect more like 40% loss or more.

Heaters I get, a direct energy consumer.

What do you mean by snow? I have my assumptions but they're just that. Are certain weather factors more detrimental to ICE or EV's that I'm not understanding?

[ChickenLips]

I went to the Ministry of Natural Resources page and couldn't find this study. Commenters on this thread mentioned burying the report with insinuations of purposeful hiding of negative info. I have no idea either way, but have my suspicions.

38398

[ChickenLips]

here's a link that does describe where taxpayer dollars are being directed WRT EV programs. Very big numbers. Very small reporting by MSM.

https://www.canada.ca/en/natural-resources-canada/news/2022/08/minister-wilkinson-releases-report-on-public-charging-needs-for-electric-vehicles-in-canada.html

[bluetoy]

Heaters I get, a direct energy consumer.

What do you mean by snow? I have my assumptions but they're just that. Are certain weather factors more detrimental to ICE or EV's that I'm not understanding?

Snow, rain etc. All that stuff requires more electrons to push the 5000lb car through it. Affects range more then you think. Yes your gas powered car takes more gas too but you can charge your ICE car anywhere in a couple mins and go another 500 km. It took me 68 kms of range to drive 35 km in the rain. Re read my very first post. That was also in early fall weather, Not winter cold.

[LX89]

The investigative TV show Marketplace is doing a story on EV's this friday,jan,26 at 8:00pm on channel 6 then repeating on saturday at 5:30pm on channel 26.

They will likely mention a few or more negatives,lol.

[ChickenLips]

Snow, rain etc. All that stuff requires more electrons to push the 5000lb car through it. Affects range more then you think. Yes your gas powered car takes more gas too but you can charge your ICE car anywhere in a couple mins and go another 500 km. It took me 68 kms of range to drive 35 km in the rain. Re read my very first post. That was also in early fall weather, Not winter cold.

Not disputing your points. Maybe I misunderstood the original statement. I took the assertion to mean that setting aside energy source and battery efficiency drop that an EV has to work harder than ICE powered vehicle. I don't see how one has to pull harder than the other in the same conditions.

I think the problem is between the keyboard and chair over here.

[ChickenLips]

The investigative TV show Marketplace is doing a story on EV's this friday,jan,26 at 8:00pm on channel 6 then repeating on saturday at 5:30pm on channel 26.

They will likely mention a few or more negatives,lol.

The media taking bailout money from the current government who's agenda is no more ICE by 2035? I expect zero bias or agenda.

[Ponyryd]

Love the post with factual statistics! :clap2:

But any debate needs the other side represented. Where are the stats on ICE in the cold?
Not as bad as EV’s, but still a good 15% in the same cold.

I’ve never seen it posted, but I’d say it’s 5-10% maybe, and most of that is from remote starting. Actual debate is pretty rare around here.

[ZR]

^ Take pride in screwing my average in the winter with remote start. Well maybe I do it a bit in the hot weather with remote n cooled seats as well.................and lovin it.

[ChickenLips]

I’ve never seen it posted, but I’d say it’s 5-10% maybe, and most of that is from remote starting. Actual debate is pretty rare around here.

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