GT350 High Oil Consumption

[Gr8Stang]

I'm on the SVT Performance periodically and noticed this thread and thought I'd share. Sounds like more than a few Voodoo motors are having oil consumption issues. Some happy endings and some....not so happy it seems when it comes to getting the issue resolved.

https://www.svtperformance.com/threads/high-oil-consumption.1148067/

[Screw]

Ya read a little on that too

[Gr8Stang]

^^^ think I'd be pretty upset if I dolled out $70+K for one of these bad boys to only have it start drinking oil and trip back to the dealer for a new long block....even if it was covered by warranty.

[ZR]

Pulling off the track during Mustang at Mosport behind one, noticed the mosquito killer smoke out the back. Been out with two owners, for some reason they were both under the impression it's ok to let the engine spin at huge RPM even at lower speeds because of it's max RPM on the tach. Combine that with the factory 5w oil and no it's not a surprise they are having issues.

[RedSN]

Combine that with the factory 5w oil....
What!? You know modern engines with tighter tolerances are engineered to run on water.
“Normal oil consumption”.

[FABMAN]

The voodoo doesn’t appear to have stellar history in general. It was one of the reasons I really wanted a coyote as they appear to be less problematic. That said, oil weight and changes are critical if you plan on running these hard.

[Scrape]

Oil consumption is definitely an issue on some voodoo motors. As ZR mentioned, the oil used plays a huge roll on how that motor performs. A 5W20 will not survive in that motor for more that a minute under those revs...I know maybe 2 minutes tops. :sarcasm:

[RedSN]

"Some oil consumption is normal"

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--tjk2J_EP--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/wcv92uoyxtdvzvewmhyj.png


*don't be mad GT350, i still love you

[hammerhead]

soon if not already will see cars with 0w.... oil

[Scrape]

My SRT Challenger required 0W40 and my current Q50 Red Sport requires 0W20! I said no way I will use that shit. 5W40 Motul 8100 XCess all the way. Changing the oil ever 8-10 k max.
soon if not already will see cars with 0w.... oil

[hammerhead]

My SRT Challenger required 0W40 and my current Q50 Red Sport requires 0W20! I said no way I will use that shit. 5W40 Motul 8100 XCess all the way. Changing the oil ever 8-10 k max.

its a tough call - oil talk is like mod talk (get a million responses) - with engineering tolerance and pressure for fuel economy it really has everyone thinking about oil - not like the old days when you just added 20w50 to an old engine - warranty to consider too - I had the oil pan off a 2ltr Dai Woo engine recently and was surprised to see a windage tray...lol (likely for fuel economy and a bit more power) fuel economy is part of the reason the paint jobs are so poor... thinner and thinner. Going too thick with oil could pose problems on todays engines so you really have to be careful. Thick could possible damage oil pump or maybe incase pressure causing leaks - the Dae Woo I just mention has an external oil pump - had a bad gasket leak on the pump ( I assume pressure) I don't know the history of the car tho but had low km. Frequent changes are better - in that 350 gt oil leak thread, I would think with an engine like that you may want to do more frequent oil changes (race car mindset)

[Screw]

Something to keep an eye out on then , suks

[ZR]

Actually, it's closer to the good old days vs what peeps are being led to believe.
You'd also be surprised how many here (2v / 3v / 4v / coyote) have ditched the suggested oil grade / service interval only to see excessive oil caught by the catch can + high consumption either greatly reduced or disappear all together.

[Gr8Stang]

Pulling off the track during Mustang at Mosport behind one, noticed the mosquito killer smoke out the back. Been out with two owners, for some reason they were both under the impression it's ok to let the engine spin at huge RPM even at lower speeds because of it's max RPM on the tach. Combine that with the factory 5w oil and no it's not a surprise they are having issues.

From what I understood, the early 2016's had oil cooler line leak issues develop, which I believe took down at least 1 of those GT350's during the Mustangs @ Mosport day. Ford came out with a TSB on that one. However, the thread I posted is more about internal engine oil consumption issues, which I'm sure Ford has identified the culprit, but isn't letting on? Too many failures for them not to know. Would have thought the 5W-50 in these cars would be sufficient....

[Gr8Stang]

If I'm running a high end sports car, I'm sticking with the manufacturer suggested oil weight....until at least the warranty period on the drive train is over.

[ZR]

Yes recall one cooler line let go one, talking about blue out the tail pipe when back off track and headed to the pits.
To me, a 10w40 would make more sense + given the rpm they see, cut intervals back dramatically.

[Ontariomystic]

soon if not already will see cars with 0w.... oil

Maybe I got this wrong. 0w, 5w, 10w all refers to the cold properties of the oil. Is it not the 20, 30, 40 number that determines its thickness? So 0w-20 or 5w-20 are basically the same where 0w-40 or 5w-40 would be much thicker and less prone to oil consumption.

Clarify if I'm wrong.

[Hotford]

No one will be looking at the GT350 once the GT500 is released.

[RedSN]

So 0w-20 or 5w-20 are basically the same where 0w-40 or 5w-40 would be much thicker and less prone to oil consumption.

To make a multi-grade oil, you take a single grade oil and add special polymer additives called viscosity index improvers, or VIIs.
For example: a 10W30 starts off with a base SAE10 grade oil. The VIIs make it perform like a SAE30 grade oil at temperature.

https://media.noria.com/sites/archive_images/articles_200803_BP_Fig_1.gif

Problem is when those VIIs break down, your multi-grade oil behaves as a single grade oil. In the case of a 5W oil it will behave as SAE5 at temperature.



VIIs explained:

Viscosity modifiers are polymeric molecules that are sensitive to temperature. At low temperatures, the molecule chain contracts and does not impact the fluid viscosity. At high temperatures, the chain relaxes and an increase in viscosity occurs.

There are two ways to explain the characteristics of these polymer chains. The first is to compare the polymers to people. When a person is cold, his natural reaction is to hold his arms close to his body to retain warmth. Now imagine a crowd of cold people, arms drawn in, moving past one another in a congested hallway. Sure there is some congestion, but the people can still move freely.

Now imagine the opposite. When a person is hot, he tends to sprawl out. Picture a person holding his arms straight out from his sides. It would be much more difficult to navigate a congested hallway full of hot people, arms extended. Consider in this example, the flow of people is related to the viscosity of the crowd.

To summarize: 0W and 5W manufacturer recommended oils are to meet CAFE standards and have nothing to do with "tighter engine" tolerances, etc.

[Ontariomystic]

To make a multi-grade oil, you take a single grade oil and add special polymer additives called viscosity index improvers, or VIIs.
For example: a 10W30 starts off with a base SAE10 grade oil. The VIIs make it perform like a SAE30 grade oil at temperature.

https://media.noria.com/sites/archive_images/articles_200803_BP_Fig_1.gif

Problem is when those VIIs break down, your multi-grade oil behaves as a single grade oil. In the case of a 5W oil it will behave as SAE5 at temperature.



VIIs explained:


To summarize: 0W and 5W manufacturer recommended oils are to meet CAFE standards and have nothing to do with "tighter engine" tolerances, etc.

I get all that, so doesn't the VII's breakdown process take a long time with all these high end synthetics? Where does the issue come from? lack of oil changes?

[hammerhead]

[QUOTE=Ontariomystic;273780]Maybe I got this wrong. 0w, 5w, 10w all refers to the cold properties of the oil. Is it not the 20, 30, 40 number that determines its thickness? So 0w-20 or 5w-20 are basically the same where 0w-40 or 5w-40 would be much thicker and less prone to oil consumption.

Clarify if I'm wrong.[

sorry - when I mention 0w... I didn't mention the weight (the last two digit) the weight or thickness is the last two digits could be anything - yes your correct 5w-20 would be thinner than 0w-30 - the first two digits are the viscosity - the lower the viscosity the easier the engine is at startup especially the winter. This could be a factor for todays engineering as all components specked lighter and tighter eg oil pump-rings-bearings etc.- with that in mind viscosity could be a very important factor on todays engine. heavier weight say 40 or 50 weight may put a strain on the oil pump and may nor effectively get in the tight areas...


on these GT350's i have no idea what the problem is - my suggestion would be frequent oil changes - engines making 400hp or more are more or less race cars - serious race car owners change the oil every race - if I was beating my car for a day on the track I would change my oil the next day regardless of intervals - Just like your tires and brakes break down after a hard day on the rack your engine oil will too. I dont know if this is the answer nor do i know the cars or the maintenance - it's mearly a suggestion. Manufacturs recommend oil for a reason - but these cars mentioned are a little beyond daily drivers with daily driver comfort...and if i owned one i would beat the snot out of it... lol

[hammerhead]

and change the oil often...lol ^^^


edit --- just a though I had, has anyone tried running the car full exhaust minus cats (if that's possible) I'm thinking high crank case pressure maybe...?

[Screw]

Only a res delete at joes , 2 oil changes at Markville in 2 months , didn’t trust it was done when he got it so immediately changed it . Glad he’s being diligent and documenting his oil changes at Ford , so they can’t blame 3rd party if something goes south .

[RedSN]

I get all that, so doesn't the VII's breakdown process take a long time with all these high end synthetics? Where does the issue come from? lack of oil changes?


Synthetic oils do have a better temp/viscosity graph than conventional oils. But they rely on the same VIIs to formulate a multi-grade oil.

A lot of these viscosity issues would go away if we would ditch CAFE standards and go back to changing oil grades based on seasons. Multi-grade oils are like “all-season” tires. Not the best in winter OR summer, but a comprise between the two.

[hammerhead]

I think there is still straight grades available even in synthetic....^^^^ I don't think oil is the issue with these 350 engines tho

[hammerhead]

www.facebook.com/ThatRacingChannel/videos/1283408075050099 maybe this will help lol

[Scrape]

:ohmygod:

[G-ForceJunkie]

To make a multi-grade oil, you take a single grade oil and add special polymer additives called viscosity index improvers, or VIIs.
For example: a 10W30 starts off with a base SAE10 grade oil. The VIIs make it perform like a SAE30 grade oil at temperature.

https://media.noria.com/sites/archive_images/articles_200803_BP_Fig_1.gif

Problem is when those VIIs break down, your multi-grade oil behaves as a single grade oil. In the case of a 5W oil it will behave as SAE5 at temperature.



VIIs explained:


To summarize: 0W and 5W manufacturer recommended oils are to meet CAFE standards and have nothing to do with "tighter engine" tolerances, etc.
I HIGHLY doubt there are many people out there with GT350s running extended oil intervals to the point that the viscosity of the oil is changing much.

As someone else pointed out, cold-start wear is a big reason for the 'dual' weight oil.

Even if you put in fresh oil every day for the exact temperature of the air outside and how you're going to drive the car, you'd still be better off with a multi-weight oil because of the temperature change in your engine. (Unless you pre-heat your oil...)

I put 8,500km and 3 track days on my last oil. It was still within the recommended viscosity for that oil at 100*C.