I will never buy a Tesla

[stangstevers]

I've been wanting a high-end Tesla and I do buy into the electrics and all that but I am 100% never going to go with that company. Musk is kind of all over the place and that company is yet to be profitable nor can it even sustain its own growth... Looking to sell out to SA as well (which he isn't doing anymore).

Them taking the government to court because they NEED our tax dollars to sell luxury cars is the last straw. The model 3 is 65k plus taxes and if you want anything good, it will cost you 80,000+ Why the fuck should my taxes go towards those purchases!? Is that what the carbon tax was all about!? So rich people can buy cool cars? Maybe they could have expanded on making homes more efficient (longer program) and maybe encourage business (especially offices) to fucking get their workforce to telecommute and avoid having stupid cars on the highways in the first place.

I get smaller cars like the volt and bolt, maybe the refund should have been used to actually take ICE powered cars off the road but even that is kind of iffy. There is no way anyone should support giving money away to people who can afford luxury cars. Why not give people who buy 2019 Mustangs money too, they are more efficient sports cars than their replacement foxes or S197's, etc...

That judge must be an idiot liberal. That case should have been thrown in the garbage and the person who brought it up should have been bitch-slapped.

[5.4MarkVIII]

Pretty much bang on. Tesla is run off government handouts and “contracts” no other business would survive that model if it wasn’t for the “global warming” bullshit that is being forced by our governments so they hand billions to Tesla for electric cars while he launches rockets out his ass.

It’s all total bullshit and anyone bitching because they don’t get their 15k rebate can simple piss off. I shouldn’t have to pay so you can have a nice car

[hammerhead]

The electric cars is still at the hobby stage (my opinion) and has been glamourized by a very influential business man. Hobbyist all over North America have been doing this for years. The infrastructure is not even close to support this and it's likely a new fuel will put it back into hobby mode. It's a cool concept but it's not for everyone. Most people rent living space and park outdoors. Drive down most residential streets and there's six cars in the driveway and three on the street in front of each house. The production of electricity is by far not clean and will get dirtier if the demand exceeds. Ingredients for batteries is scarce and will probably end before oil production is over. If what I read about electric cars in China is true most lose half the battery life between 5-8years of age. Could be a lot of old ev's getting v8 swaps...lol Hybrids make the most sense for the near future!

[StAnger]

I've always resisted the temptation to spit on Teslas.... Now, game on.

[hammerhead]

hahaha!

[RedSN]

Hate the game, not the players.

The Liberal introduced cap and trade on industry and used the proceeds to fund "green" rebates. Under that program, rich people buy luxury vehicles and receive a rebate. Then, instead of phasing out the program, the PCs axed it. So Tesla buyers cancelled their orders, breaking their contracts. Tesla sues the government, and the Judge agreed that the broken contracts were a direct result of the rebate cancellation.

So if you are going to be angry at anybody, be angry at the Liberals for the program in the first place. IMO, Tesla was just, and the judgement was correct.
Tesla, Musk, Rich People, the Judge, all the players just playing the game by the rules set out by the Liberals.

[CON VERT]

Apart from the B/S politics , have u driven a Tesla ?, I had a P90D for the weekend, soooooooooooo smooth and well balanced, perfect brakes , Harmon Kardon system, point it a brick wall and nail the happy stick , no worries, stop , OH did I mention the HP or WATTS or what ever u wanna call it, All I know is this 4 door sedan will leave my S/C Mustang in it trail , with ZERO noise & smooth as silk, apart from the price, I'd would be happy with one in my drive way & would trade in the 300 for one ! Can't wait to drive the new sport model, from what I've been reading they have turned it down twice already & its still way too fast for the road, this thing in F1 territory ! Giddy UP !

[RedSN]

Give $1B to bail out the big 3, and nobody bats an eye.
Give $100M in electric vehicle rebates, everyone loses their minds!

[5.4MarkVIII]

But why does any part of that mean we have to help someone else pay for one?

[5.4MarkVIII]

Sorry above was a reply to mint2000

I was out spoken Against the bail outs to the manufactures. As were a lot of other people. I think the big difference bing the big three have or had plants here and supplied jobs and invested back into our economy.
Not sure where Tesla is built but I don’t recall it being in Canada.

[83 5.0]

Ford had something against Tesla, as he specifically said delivered through a dealer. As far as I saw it Tesla is a dealer also, just direct sales.
I voted PC, but I don't like this petty BS, costs the taxpayers money to go to court. He should have phased it out for all over a set period.

[RedSN]

Not sure where Tesla is built but I don’t recall it being in Canada.
My point was the big 3 would have FAILED in a free market. (response to Legwounds post)

[5.4MarkVIII]

Sure. Not disputing that and well they should. But I don’t think it’s totaly a free market when companies are being blackmailed by unions and governments forcing higher wages/taxes/ utility’s

But that’s a much bigger picture.

My point was at least the money invested into the big three was an investment. And it didn’t cause the over inflation of prices.

Electric cars would be cheaper if not for the rebates. This is proven with any government assisted product. You always end up paying more for less. Look to education and healthcare.

[CON VERT]

Sorry, what's not to LOVE ! , not all my cars have to be made here !
https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/roadster

[5.4MarkVIII]

Not disputing quality or performance. I’d be saying the same thing if I had to help a rich person pay for a Lamborghini. I was saying the same thing about the program when it included the volt and the focus ev.

My work and location makes an ev not sutible for me. So why do I have to help someone else pay for theirs?

[RedSN]

rich people's taxes go to pay for poor peoples cable TV and smokes.
poor people's taxes go to pay for rich peoples high end electric cars.


I don't know. It's a crazy world we live in. :shrug:

[stangstevers]

If it's just to honor sold cars under the expectation of a rebate, that makes sense. As far as the legal issue is concerned. You can axe the program but shouldn't leave people "in the dark".

Still though back to my Tesla rage though... lol With an additional liberal rage to the mix...

[5.4MarkVIII]

rich people's taxes go to pay for poor peoples cable TV and smokes.
poor people's taxes go to pay for rich peoples high end electric cars.


I don't know. It's a crazy world we live in. :shrug:

That’s exactly the problem. If people were responsible for their own shit. Then we would all be better off and there would be more tax money for people who actually need help

[stangstevers]

I thought Ford didn't need bailout money? I mean Ford didn't get the TARP bailout, they got a loan which was paid for a while ago...

Go Ford! :D lol

[hammerhead]

14871

they should really do this - with a slot in the road they would be self driving and that way most of the drivers in Bampton will now be able to get into the centre turning lane when they make a left hand turn in rush hour traffic....

[stangstevers]

Well we know Quebec is pretty retarded so those morons may vote for the CAQ (more left than even the NDP) and they plan to ban gas cars by 2030. Ban selling them anyway...

[StAnger]

Well we know Quebec is pretty retarded so those morons may vote for the CAQ (more left than even the NDP) and they plan to ban gas cars by 2030. Ban selling them anyway...

2030... I hope to be dead and gone by then.

[Quicksilver]

Decades ago the U.S. and California governments decreed that by 2020 the auto manufacturers en masse had to have something like 5 % of all production as electric cars. In order to force the technology, these governments offered incentives to purchasers to make it a bit easier to buy or lease them.
As it turns out, the current electric car tech is VERY expensive, and battery technology only slightly advanced from years ago. Musk very smartly hit on the idea of selling an expensive luxury vehicle with an electric motor, thus hiding the physical costs under the shell of a luxury car. At the time, no one else could offer an affordable, range viable electric car, (The Chevy Volt has a range extender gas engine and the Nissan Leaf has half the range and is a very basic vehicle). Especially for the first Tesla purchasers (who were practically pioneers), the government rebates may have made the difference in the purchase decision. From that point of view, the rebates from the government have achieved at least to some degree thier purpose in accelerating electric car technology.

[5.4MarkVIII]

Decades ago the U.S. and California governments decreed that by 2020 the auto manufacturers en masse had to have something like 5 % of all production as electric cars. In order to force the technology, these governments offered incentives to purchasers to make it a bit easier to buy or lease them.
As it turns out, the current electric car tech is VERY expensive, and battery technology only slightly advanced from years ago. Musk very smartly hit on the idea of selling an expensive luxury vehicle with an electric motor, thus hiding the physical costs under the shell of a luxury car. At the time, no one else could offer an affordable, range viable electric car, (The Chevy Volt has a range extender gas engine and the Nissan Leaf has half the range and is a very basic vehicle). Especially for the first Tesla purchasers (who were practically pioneers), the government rebates may have made the difference in the purchase decision. From that point of view, the rebates from the government have achieved at least to some degree thier purpose in accelerating electric car technology.

fair points, at some point though the tech or the business that's making billions should take the slack of the tax payer, no?
hard to say what point that is, but when the business are making the CEO's insanely rich, I kind of think its time

[stangstevers]

Imagine if we had flying cars in Markham... 911 would be every day of the week.

[trickflow-jay]

we will see if Tesla can compete w/o the rebates.....Im hoping for bankruptcy and good riddance.Elon Musk is no Tony Stark but he does have a silver tongue and thats what it takes sometimes.

[RedSN]

PayPal, SpaceX, and Tesla motors. Love him or hate him I gotta give him credit.
He made the electric car cool and landed a rocket on it’s tail.

I did nothing today but post some pictures on a forum.

[Ponyryd]

^The guy is a sleazball Don, he’s using our money to get rich, and we’re all letting him do it! Not one of the cars they have produced has been at a profit, and who is paying the losses?



Give $1B to bail out the big 3, and nobody bats an eye.
Give $100M in electric vehicle rebates, everyone loses their minds!

Plenty of people were upset about that, myself included, as well as bailing out the banks! Wtf is that about. Plenty of people are also upset about the ev rebates, myself included, because why the hell am I helping to make some dude rich, and helping to pay for some rich dudes car? Nobody pays for my car, just me! And sure, they are “cleaner” but when are they cleaner? Battery production is very dirty, as is hydro, not to mention what happens to the battery in a crash, as well as disposal of the batteries at the end of their life....so how exactly are they “cleaner”?

[FABMAN]

PayPal, SpaceX, and Tesla motors. Love him or hate him I gotta give him credit.
He made the electric car cool and landed a rocket on it’s tail.

I did nothing today but post some pictures on a forum.

You still beat me Don...no new pictures to post...need to go out and take some soon...:)

[hammerhead]

Cleaner is just a mirage that hasen't been proven yet as far as I know - nothing about energy is clean we make methane as well as animals taking a dump after extracting energy from food - they make hydro with coal down south we use natural gas among other things - there's millions of miles of copper and aluminum in the ground and the air - tons of waste oil in transformers - I think it would be much easier to build self sustaining house then maintain a grid the size of Hydro, but that will hurt the governments bullshit attempt to running a business like Ontario Hydro. The Liberal government is trying to corner us to being dependant on strictly hydro nothing else. They plan to make it difficult to use any other source including burning wood for heat (which is all I have aside from electricity) They don't do it for us little guys. In the past the government hated organization like green peace now they stroke tree huggers to get their agenda across. Try to live off the grid (you cant get any cleaner) they will practically throw you in jail. (sarcasm) raise the tariffs...lol

[stangstevers]

I wish we could just own cars for fun and nothing else.

[RedSN]

... they make hydro with coal...

Try to live off the grid (you cant get any cleaner) they will practically throw you in jail.
Hydro, by definition, is hydroelectric power generated by water. You might be using “hydro” as a synonym for “electricity”.

They don’t throw you in jail for living off the grid. My friend John Wilson and his family live off the grid in Hockley Valley quite comfortably, and have not “practically” been thrown in jail.


I think it would be much easier to build self sustaining house then maintain a grid the size of Hydro,
I agree. As mentioned above, it’s doable, but not at the current population density. John’s place is on a 9 acre lot.

[stangstevers]

Living the dream, I should smarten up and do the same.

[Scrape]

Drove one recently at Tesla but the interior of the Model S and 3 are just so cheap and horrible. The Model S was the 75 kW version, all I can say is that it was fast but a bit uninspiring. I don't like the idea of paying over $100K for a car that is worth no more than $60K. Yes, I understand the tech cost money but the comfort is important as well. Too many weird failures from what I have been reading as well.
https://www.autoblog.com/2018/08/13/tesla-model-3-loses-bumper-rain/
A lot of things melt in the rain. Don't leave your cake out in it. But have you ever had a car bumper fall off? No? Two new owners of Tesla (https://www.autoblog.com/tesla/) Model 3s say it has happened to them.

The rear bumper, or the bumper cover to be more precise, fell off during his inaugural drive home, says momentarily proud but now perturbed new Model 3 (https://www.autoblog.com/tesla/model+3/) owner Rithesh Nair, reaching out to Elon Musk (https://www.autoblog.com/tag/elon+musk/) on Twitter:
Nair says it appears the bumper cover separated from its screws, and the theory on Twitter goes that a piece of shielding was missing, torn or loose. Without it, rainwater got into the bumper cover, and the weight of accumulated water tore the plastic piece away.

There were reports of quality control issues, most notably one from CNBC (https://www.autoblog.com/2018/03/14/tesla-employees-report-flawed-parts-model-3-delays/), during the long, delayed Model 3 production runup, though recently Munro & Associates conducted a teardown of a Model 3 and pronounced it a "symphony of engineering." (https://www.autoblog.com/2018/07/17/tesla-model-3-teardown-profitable-ev-symphony-of-e/)

No reply yet from Elon Musk. But late in the day, a Tesla official issued a statement: "We're setting an extremely high bar for Model 3, and what happened in this situation is not how we build our cars. We're investigating the issue to understand what caused it, and we are contacting our customers to resolve this and ensure they are satisfied."

https://o.aolcdn.com/images/dims3/GLOB/crop/900x507+0+216/resize/800x450!/format/jpg/quality/85/http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/midas/8e37d17073aee9f8b695ca8319c33230/206591553/Tesla-Model-3-bumper-cover.jpg

[stangstevers]

While we're picking it apart... I really do not like the GUI and UX on the model3... it's like driving a really bad iphone app. Just using the TWO SPEED WIPERS requires eyes off the road to fiddle with a stupid screen. There's going to be a LOT of crashes if Tesla ever does get popular with their non-functioning driverless function and just plain bad user experience and interface design. We get to 1: help people buy their cars with our tax money; and 2: get to deal with insurance and higher rates once those cars ram into ours on the highway. It's a "win win" situation for hydro and insurance companies... good job leftist governments...

But seriously... these cars are just untested toys and a means for an overrated web developer (Musk) to cram "cool" gadgets between 4 wheels. And Musk is no god or good guy, he's very much like the genius marketer and thief Edison and very unlike Tesla or Einstein.

EDIT: ok just learnt it has intermittent, the UI really is that bad

[5.4MarkVIII]

the reason you don't see any new upstart car companies anymore is just due to shear cost.

the R&D costs for a new car is staggering and its 100% a volume sell game, you need to sell ALOT of cars to break even or cut corners

[stangstevers]

Wait until someone lets the Chinese enter the car market in North America...

[ZR]

Incredible performance but to me the car feels cheap.

[hammerhead]

Hydro, by definition, is hydroelectric power generated by water. You might be using “hydro” as a synonym for “electricity”.

They don’t throw you in jail for living off the grid. My friend John Wilson and his family live off the grid in Hockley Valley quite comfortably, and have not “practically” been thrown in jail.


I agree. As mentioned above, it’s doable, but not at the current population density. John’s place is on a 9 acre lot.

that's great can't convince the wife or I would too - potato patato skidoo snowmobile Kleenex tissue most of ours is nuclear...

[trickflow-jay]

Wait until someone lets the Chinese enter the car market in North America...

they make almost exact copies of BMW and Mercedes but will they pass stringent crash testing? probably not so u wont see them here anytime soon

[stangstevers]

I think that's just the case because they feel it's not worth it to change tooling to sell in our markets. I'm waiting for the Chinese government to buy Fiat/Dodge lol

[stangstevers]

A friend in high-school had the Lada SUV... it was such a cool car lol

(on that note... or different note... I wish I had a Samari "jeep" thing to get back into off-roading lol)

[RedSN]

I wish I had a Samari "jeep" thing to get back into off-roading lol)
Samurai?

https://www.jeeptopsdirect.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1000x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/s/u/suzuki-samurai.jpg


A friend in high-school had the Lada SUV... it was such a cool car lol

Here’s a cool civic

You have weird tastes in vehicles Stever, LOL

[stangstevers]

Yeah lol I just remember that little bugger go further than lifted jeeps back in my off-road days lol

[Ponyryd]

Those numbers over a year,or?

[RedSN]

a subsidy (otherwise known as some of my tax dollars)
indirectly through increased operating costs to industry,
but the subsidy was not coming directly from your tax dollars.

Funny, now that Ford has axed cap and trade, I haven't noticed any extra money in my pocket.

[Stephen06GT]

indirectly through increased operating costs to industry,
but the subsidy was not coming directly from your tax dollars.

Funny, now that Ford has axed cap and trade, I haven't noticed any extra money in my pocket.

You have to start drinking “buck-a-beer”.

[Clutt gt]

Not to derail a thread but don’t get me started on buck a beer.
Wtf has happened to our government when the election promises people care most about are buck a beer and legalization of pot. If these are the things that mater most to Canadians we are all fucked.

[Clutt gt]

Most people I know that buy the cheapest beer they can find. Probably should drink less beer.
Do you know what is over taxed that we all use GAS so maybe just maybe we should get a break on gas over beer.
Small business uses gas not beer
Big business uses gas not beer
People going to work every day use gas not beer

[stangstevers]

The beer thing is just some idiot slogan "buck a beer" to build hype around a political party. Do people realize it was 1.25... LOL... TBH, things that are harmful such as booze and cigs should have some sort of "luxury" tax and include fast and processed food into that mix as well. Use that tax revenue for the health care system. I'm also okay with a carbon tax if it was actually revenue neutral (ie. reduce our income tax and THEN create a carbon tax).

The only reasons why I voted for Ford was to get rid of Wynne and stop the socialist SJW extremists to gain power over the province. Them being in 2nd place is scary enough. It's frightening how the political landscape is now in Canada/USA. It's setup to fail in our lifetime now. Can't wait for Rome to fall and throw us into the dark ages 2.0. :/

[5.4MarkVIII]

Most people I know that buy the cheapest beer they can find. Probably should drink less beer.
Do you know what is over taxed that we all use GAS so maybe just maybe we should get a break on gas over beer.
Small business uses gas not beer
Big business uses gas not beer
People going to work every day use gas not beer

buck a beer was in response to the problem that is the government assisted monopoly that is the LCBO and beer store. people complained about the fact that you are forced to pay one price and those prices keep going up. it was a small insignificant campaign promise that shows he doesn't care about ruffling the feathers of those who have been benefiting off the government teat in favor of the people. its pretty much insignificant other than it was one more promise he kept. like it or not i dont recall any other politician keeping as many promises in such a short period

[stangstevers]

yes, it irks me when I hear "paid for by the government of _____"

Should not be legal in any shape or form unless it's directly funded by their fund raising activities... Should be "paid for by tax payers of _____"

[roh86vert]

My best buddy owns a body shop and he is only one of two authorized Tesla repair body shops in the GTA. He has min 25 Tesla's at any given time. Repair from low thousands up to close to 80k. You would love to visit his shop. My buddy is profiting HUGE

[RedSN]

…he is only one of two authorized Tesla repair body shops in the GTA.…My buddy is profiting HUGE
It’s good to have a monopoly.

[stangstevers]

I’m the only Tesla certified detail shop... $1200 for a wash lol