Pedestrian Bridge Collapse

[RedSN]

Officials say multiple people have been killed and eight people have been taken to the hospital in the collapse of a bridge at a Florida university.

The $14.2 million bridge crossed over a busy seven-lane road highway that divided the university’s campus from the city of Sweetwater. The 950-ton span was installed on Saturday to great fanfare. The main part of the 174-foot span was assembled by the side of the road and had to be swung into place. The “accelerated bridge construction” method was supposed to reduce risks to workers and pedestrians and minimize traffic disruption, the university said.

Concept drawing of the finished bridge
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/west-miami-dade/wwwt0d/picture204506074/alternates/FREE_1140/IMG_View-1-comp__1__7_1_P9C6OBGT_L337097734
Installation of the main span Saturday night
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/west-miami-dade/pp1x2c/picture204506029/alternates/FREE_1140/100FIUBridge11%20NEW%20PPP
Bridge collapses and crushes several vehicles
https://mgtvwcmh.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/florida.jpg

I'm not sure what the plan was, but the concept drawing shows a cable-stayed bridge. The second picture shows the main deck being positioned after it had been constructed off to the side. The third pic shows the collapsed deck. I don't see any tower or cables. Had they not been installed yet? If not, I'm not sure I understand how they thought the deck was going to span the road on it's own. I'm anxious to hear more details about the cause of the collapse and why live traffic was allowed to continue driving below it.

RIP those that got caught in the accident.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@25.7612984,-80.3724308,3a,41.2y,254.19h,92.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0fYdTkEf0uhBtkgtEKiruA!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656?hl=en

[92redragtop]

I was just looking at this on the G&M site. RIP to those that lost their lives.

[Black Sheep]

Wow.....very surprised to hear that traffic was allowed to go under while it was being installed.

[G-ForceJunkie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=13&v=Ucflj-MsJBI

https://gizmodo.com/report-engineer-told-officials-not-to-worry-about-crac-1823860314

[Ponyryd]

Wow.....very surprised to hear that traffic was allowed to go under while it was being installed.

I don’t know a lot about it but what I heard was that it was complete, but not yet in use by pedestrians, apparently the crew was tightening the cables (although I see none) and it just collapsed. The company has been in business for over 40 years but were using some new method of building in an attempt to keep the road open.
Rip to the dead, terrible way to die.

[5.4MarkVIII]

Post tensioned concrete has cable threw channels within. Makes it stronger to pulling focrces.

It was moved into position with the moving lifts in the Wrong spot. Most likely over stressing one of the cables. They tried to retighten the cable and it snapped.

Regardless of method. It was pure negligence to attempt to tension cables with the road open.

If your interested


https://youtu.be/ioC61QW7SHQ

https://youtu.be/KtiTm2dKLgU

[5.4MarkVIII]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=13&v=Ucflj-MsJBI

https://gizmodo.com/report-engineer-told-officials-not-to-worry-about-crac-1823860314

Hard to comprehend the weight untill you see that pickup truck.

Only hope it was over quick.

[Laffs]

Holy hell, that video is insane.

I don't understand where the support was temporarily? I don't see a tower or main/suspender cables in any of the actual pics?

[5.4MarkVIII]

Thats what I though initially as well but According to engineers the span was self supporting the tower and cables were to mitigate oscillation.

[ZR]

R.I.P. to those lost.

[RedSN]

^^^im not taking away anything from the romans, but modern engineers have constructed much more impressive structures than simple arch bridges.

If this was truly a cable-stayed bridge, I don’t understand what than bridge deck was doing there without shoring until the cables are installed along with the other span and the cable tower. I can only presume it’s not a true cable-stayed bridge. The dashcam footage seems to indicate that the failure originated from the point where the crane was lifting. I’ve probably already discussed more than our office wants, but I’m curious to see what the investigation determines.

[RedSN]

See second video of post 6, seems like he’s figured out the failure mode
I couldn't get through the first video, didn't bother with the second.

Tried the second one just now, couldn't get past the first minute.



edit: forced myself to sit through that guy's entire presentation and there are a couple of interesting points. The most glaring one to me that I hadn't noticed from the pictures of the moving process was the location of the movers. A simple span truss has a top chord in compression, a bottom chord in tension, and diagonal web members in tension and compression. The joints where the diagonals meet the chords are the 'panel points'. Any point loads on a truss should ALWAYS be through the panel points. Putting a point load midspan between panel points puts the chord into bending.

edit edit: LOL, wonder if this guy has any World Trade Centre videos? :facepalm:

[Ponyryd]

^Same here, I’d like to know what happened but not that badly, lol.

[5.4MarkVIII]

You guys are nuts he does some of the best videos on YouTube. And his patrion page is like an open forum. Everything he talked about was confermed by engineers and those in the industry.

[Laffs]

I'm gonna go ahead and trust RedSN's input on the materials of civil/structural engineering.

[Ponyryd]

You guys are nuts

Not gonna argue

[RedSN]

You guys are nuts he does some of the best videos on YouTube.
Well then, uh, that's some pretty impressive credentials, I stand corrected. I thought he was just some anonymous dude.
But when you start using language like "smoking gun" you sound more like a basement tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist and I tune out.

I'm with the president of the National Academy of Forensic Engineers Martin Gordon, and Former FIU President Mitch Maidique. Too many unknowns, too many factors to determine the cause yet. Bridges don't just collapse, there's no single "smoking gun".

Without knowing more, it's hard to say whether the cracking found Tuesday was significant, said Martin Gordon, president of the National Academy of Forensic Engineers and a professor at the Rochester Institute of Technology.

"You don't know where the crack was. You can speculate all you want," Gordon said, adding, "If the crack was near the truss member that they were tightening, then that obviously might not have been a good idea to be doing work near that crack. You have to err on the side of caution."

Former FIU President Mitch Maidique, an engineer who was not involved in the project, said a catastrophic bridge failure of this kind is usually the result of multiple problems, not a single cause.

"My experience is that when something goes wrong it's rarely the result of one thing that went wrong," Maidique said. "It is typically multiple failures, because systems are generally designed with backups. It's too early to tell. But my guess is when the autopsy is completed, you'll find multiple sources of errors that led to this disaster."

http://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2018/03/19/blame-game-escalates-in-pedestrian-bridge-collapse-that-killed-six/

[Laffs]

Forensic engineering is not a branch I even knew existed, but now that I do I want to learn literally EVERYTHING about it.

[5.4MarkVIII]

Well then, uh, that's some pretty impressive credentials, I stand corrected. I thought he was just some anonymous dude.
But when you start using language like "smoking gun" you sound more like a basement tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist and I tune out.

I'm with the president of the National Academy of Forensic Engineers Martin Gordon, and Former FIU President Mitch Maidique. Too many unknowns, too many factors to determine the cause yet. Bridges don't just collapse, there's no single "smoking gun".

http://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2018/03/19/blame-game-escalates-in-pedestrian-bridge-collapse-that-killed-six/

Non of that refutes what he (as well of many others) said

Multiple issues were pointed out “the smoking gun” would be the like the straw that broke the camels back.
And they fact that they were in the process of tensioning that one rod which shot out of the truss immediately before or at the same time the bridge collapsed. Would lend credibility to the idea that that was the final straw as they say.

Don’t know why your getting so defensive and commenting about tin foil hats?
Is no one allowed to have an opinion if it dosnt directly alllign with yours?

[Stephen06GT]

Don’t know why your getting so defensive and commenting about tin foil hats?
Is no one allowed to have an opinion if it dosnt directly alllign with yours?

Seriously? You are upset over the tin foil hat comment that wasn't even directed at you. As far as opinions, you don't seem to have a problem voicing yours.

[5.4MarkVIII]

I have no issue with people voicing opinions. I was question why he was being so critical about an unknown guy on the internet giving some input.
When he, himself is an unknown guy on the internet giving input.

Lol

The you guys are crazy comment was more in regards to them having a hard time getting threw the videos or forcing themselves to watch it. As I thoutoly enjoy the videos the guys puts out. I think they are entertaining, thought provoking and sometimes enlightening. And they have nothing to do with politics.

(Just wanted to clarify that point incase it was miss understood.)

[5.4MarkVIII]

hmmm this will stir things up

A Female-Led Construction Company Built The Florida Bridge That Collapsed

Florida has been having its bad stroke of luck as of late. First the horrible tragedy in Parkland, and now this; Florida International University’s “instant bridge,” spontaneously collapsing earlier on Thursday. The two companies responsible for the poorly constructed bridge were MCM and Figg, both have a sketchy history when it comes to construction, but for today’s purposes, we’re going to focus on MCM, because there’s a valuable lesson that can be learned here.

That lesson is this; there are some things that women shouldn’t do. There are some things women can’t do. One of these is construction.

Though MCM is owned by five brothers, a lot of people one rung down the ladder from them are women. Some of the construction workers are even women. How ironic is it then, that earlier this month, MCM was slapped with a lawsuit for hiring “incompetent, inexperienced, unskilled or careless employees.” Fox reports:

Leonor Flores, FIU alumna, and MCM project exec says her number one priority when building bridges is to make sure they look pretty. Nothing else matters:

“It’s very important for me as a woman and an engineer to be able to promote that to my daughter because I think women have a different perspective. We’re able to put in an artistic touch and we’re able to build too.”

No. You can’t build things. The bridge collapsed for no other reason than terrible structure. Though the death toll is currently at six, police say that the number is likely to rise. But no, let’s talk about how strong and powerful these women are. This company prides itself on how many women they hire, saying that it’s a big step towards gender equality. That’s not working out so far, is it?

There’s a reason you don’t hear about women in construction; they’re not very good at it, and quite frankly, they don’t want to be. Women in MCM promote feminism when it’s convenient; when everybody’s looking tough and ready to conquer the world in their construction hat. But when their projects fail, and lives are lost, everyone wants to focus on all the men in the company. Nobody, not them or the mainstream media is talking about all these women and how they dropped the ball. None of them want to take responsibility, and that makes both the media and these women spineless cowards.

https://squawker.org/culture-wars/a-female-led-construction-company-built-the-florida-bridge-that-collapsed/


I think they guy is taking it a bit too far.

With the proper training and experience I have no doubt that women can be very good construction workers. By proper training I mean. The same school, or training anyone else would have to take to become certified or licensed to do the work.

I will say if it’s true that they have been hired g and irking with un trained people thisnwould highlight the dangers of recent government bills to force gender equality into the work place.

Jobs should be filled based on, experience, training and ability. Not on gender, forcing companies to pad the work force with unsckilled labour (regardless of sex). To meet equality guidelines is dangerous and will only create problems.

[Black Sheep]

Jobs should be filled based on, experience, training and ability. Not on gender

yup. i agree

[ZR]

I have no issue with people voicing opinions. I was question why he was being so critical about an unknown guy on the internet giving some input.
When he, himself is an unknown guy on the internet giving input.

Lol

The you guys are crazy comment was more in regards to them having a hard time getting threw the videos or forcing themselves to watch it. As I thoutoly enjoy the videos the guys puts out. I think they are entertaining, thought provoking and sometimes enlightening. And they have nothing to do with politics.

(Just wanted to clarify that point incase it was miss understood.)

Don most certainly does not fall into the category of "unknown guy", friend to many here as well as a respected engineer.
To me, you've taken his comment out of context.

[RedSN]

I’m not saying the guy didn’t have some interesting hypotheses, I just didn’t care for the dirty “Bill Nye The Science Guy” delivery. It totally stripped away any of his credibility IMO. That’s why I had difficulty sitting through the entire “YouTube” video.

Anyway.... i’m still more curious to see what the forensic engineers, the ones actually on the ground examining the wreckage, determine as the cause.

[RedSN]

That lesson is this; there are some things that women shouldn’t do. There are some things women can’t do. One of these is construction.
What a load of horseshit. How are you able to even re-post that? Is that what you believe? If it is, I will send you a long list of buildings that maybe you should not walk into.

Some of the most competent construction managers and engineers I know are women. Our own head of engineering is a very proficient woman.

How did this thread take such a 180? I’m out.

[5.4MarkVIII]

Don most certainly does not fall into the category of "unknown guy", friend to many here as well as a respected engineer.
To me, you've taken his comment out of context.


I’m not saying the guy didn’t have some interesting hypotheses, I just didn’t care for the dirty “Bill Nye The Science Guy” delivery. It totally stripped away any of his credibility IMO. That’s why I had difficulty sitting through the entire “YouTube” video.

Anyway.... i’m still more curious to see what the forensic engineers, the ones actually on the ground examining the wreckage, determine as the cause.


Perhaps I read to far into it.

Seems to be a lot of seems to be a lot of “I don’t agree” somecerything you say is wrong mentality around anymore
So maybe I just jumped to a conclusion to early.

I got no problem waiting untill the experts on site make a conclusion. But I don’t see the harm in discussion about possible causes. The art of conversation. Lol

[5.4MarkVIII]

I don’t disagree with a generalization to the degree of “women as a whole don’t tyipicaly show much interest in construction”

But I disagree with the generalization that woman can’t do construction.

I feel anyone who complete the proper school for any job can do it other wise they would not pass the schooling.

Dosnt matter if its construction, nursing or anything else.

In fact I would be willing to go as far as saying
Women are generally more detail oriented then men. There fore a detail oriented job such as engineering one might find women who shot an interest in it could potentially be better than men

[Laffs]

5.4MarkVIII and RedSN have agreed on 2 things in as many days. If anyone needs me I'll be out back digging my apocalypse bunker because this cannot be good.

[stangstevers]

What did I miss in here? The women comment? What is this, the 50's? lol

[ZR]

More like stone age.

https://www.heritagedaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Diorama_cavemen_-_National_Museum_of_Mongolian_History.jpg

[5.4MarkVIII]

5.4MarkVIII and RedSN have agreed on 2 things in as many days. If anyone needs me I'll be out back digging my apocalypse bunker because this cannot be good.

Lol. Danger.

I keep saying that media and politicians of all types want us to think there is this huge political devide but in reality we are closer than they want us to know
Most topics are not cut and dry simple answers. They are large complexe, ever changing.

That’s why I strongly feel conversations like this are very important.
The caviat being it’s much harder to converse complex topics on line. It’s too easy to misinterpret someone’s intent or to read to much into inference.
Lord knows my exceptional gramer and spelling skills aid in this. Lol

We may disagree but in the end we are all in this together. We may butt heads but there is no one here I begrudge for a differing opinion. And no one I wouldn’t shake hands and buy a beer for if we ever met in person. .

[92redragtop]

What did I miss in here? The women comment? What is this, the 50's? lol

Mike Pence approves.

[92redragtop]

Lol. Danger.

I keep saying that media and politicians of all types want us to think there is this huge political devide but in reality we are closer than they want us to know
Most topics are not cut and dry simple answers. They are large complexe, ever changing.

That’s why I strongly feel conversations like this are very important.
The caviat being it’s much harder to converse complex topics on line. It’s too easy to misinterpret someone’s intent or to read to much into inference.
Lord knows my exceptional gramer and spelling skills aid in this. Lol

Do you know how to spell "spatial"?

[92redragtop]

Actually I don’t believe in labeling an entire group’s ability based on their sex. I however do recognize generalizations, and that men are better at spacial relationships and engineering type problems “in general” and there will be exceptions with women of excellence.

The demographic of that company is factual, the observations and conclusions are what is up for discussion.

In light of my own small sample experiences I find this generalization to be somewhat accurate.

Is it possible that educational or experiencial standards were lowered in the name of “inclusiveness”, sure it is.

Time will tell as the investigation continues.

So they make the math tests less difficult for female engineering candidates?

[92redragtop]

snopes check on post 23

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/was-all-female-responsible-bridge-collapse/

Isn't Squawker a fake news site?

[92redragtop]

Just ironic when claiming that others were not good at something.

- - - Updated - - -


New Oxford exam times help women
An extension to the time allowed for all maths undergraduates to sit papers has boosted the grades of female students

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/new-oxford-exam-times-help-women-q8cqrx7lh

- - - Updated - - -



hence the snopes post,

Ah ok, I wasn't sure why you were contradicting your own earlier post.

[92redragtop]

New Oxford exam times help women
An extension to the time allowed for all maths undergraduates to sit papers has boosted the grades of female students

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/new-oxford-exam-times-help-women-q8cqrx7lh

- - - Updated - - -



hence the snopes post,

Couldn't read the whole article to see the entire rationale. Is this the same for US engineering schools?


EDIT: found more on the Oxford experiment.

A lot of people have misinterpreted this latest rule as only applying to female students, which is incorrect. Both women and men now have longer exam times in math and computer science, giving no particular group of students an advantage over another.

"I just graded an exam for the course I taught in Michaelmas term [first academic term]," Elkind says, "and I can assure you that all candidates were given the same amount of time irrespective of gender."

According to Sarah Hart, a math professor at Birkbeck, University of London, women tend to double-check their answers more than men, which could be one reason they tend to perform better when given more time, she explained to the Sunday Times. Men perform better, too, she said, because while they are more inclined to answer quickly, they also get more wrong when they have less time.

Will be interesting to see how the data plays out over longer than just one term but it corroborates data from the investing world where womenhave been found to be typically more risk averse than men when it comes to investing/investment decisions/choices (or viewed differently, men gamble more/make riskier investments). Maybe engineers (of any gender) double-checking their work may be a good thing?

[92redragtop]

Maybe not while you're tripping while playing and calling out bad play? That would be poor form....but have at it.

[92redragtop]

Is that MGTOW? Didn't see much on who that YT'er is. Do MGTOW's view the women in their own families this way? Mother, sister, daughter, grandmother?

According to the columnist Martin Daubney, members of the MGTOW community believe that legal and romantic entanglements with women fail a cost–benefit analysis and risk–benefit analysis.[12] Jeremy Nicholson, writing for Psychology Today, similarly described MGTOW as "guys who have been frustrated and punished to the point that they see no further incentive to relate [to dating] [...], they focus on making themselves happy".[13] Kay Hymowitz has stated that some self-identified MGTOW express discontent because they see women as hypergamous and manipulative.[14] The Business Insider reporter Dylan Love wrote a "fully-realized MGTOW (there are levels to it) is someone who shuns all relationships with women, short-term, long-term, romantic, and otherwise. He eventually shuns society as a whole."[11] Some MGTOW have many short-term casual relationships or engage in sex with prostitutes.[9] Celibacy, however, is also an option. A MGTOW that chooses celibacy over sex and relationships is said to be "going monk"[15] and some embrace maintaining their virginity.

[5.4MarkVIII]

Do you know how to spell "spatial"?

?? I’m missing what your throwing