Suspension gurus?

[stangstevers]

Hi, I know a lot of you guys actually race on here and know what you're talking about. I'm working on an order for some parts... and to be honest, I'm a bit chicken to pull the trigger but let me see if this makes sense to you:

First my notch is built like this:
- Max Motorsports rear lower control arms (adjustable)
- FRPP Upper control arms
- Eibach Sportline springs
- Stock Sway bars
- Stock replacement KYB's (Nothing special)
- Hotchkis (sp?) Caster camber plates
- SN95 Spindles (SN95 ball joints)
- Cobra brakes all around
- New bushings everywhere

Now in the cart I have the following:
- Steeda bumpsteer kit (been needing that)
- Flaming River solid steering shaft (replaces the rag joint)
- 12" 175lb coilover kit for the front (UPR tho?)
- Team Z K-member and Control Arms
- Max Motorsports panhard bar

This is all in phases... TBH I just need to get the bumpsteer kit and steering shaft, but then my ADD kicked in and... $$$$ later, I'm asking for advice lol I figure the bumpsteer and steering thing I need and regardless of K-member. Coilover will be needed eventually if I do K-member swap anyway... (assuming I don't pull the trigger on everything).

My notch is getting aluminum heads to remove some weight up front too.

Thanks!

[ZR]

First question, drag, road course or street cruizer?

[stangstevers]

Sorry, should have specified...

Not really into Drag racing anymore, mostly aggressive street cruising (in Mexico) and I hope to join some road course event once I grow some balls...

[ZR]

Hi, I know a lot of you guys actually race on here and know what you're talking about. I'm working on an order for some parts... and to be honest, I'm a bit chicken to pull the trigger but let me see if this makes sense to you:

First my notch is built like this:
- Max Motorsports rear lower control arms (adjustable)
- FRPP Upper control arms
- Eibach Sportline springs
- Stock Sway bars
- Stock replacement KYB's (Nothing special)
- Hotchkis (sp?) Caster camber plates
- SN95 Spindles (SN95 ball joints)
- Cobra brakes all around
- New bushings everywhere

Now in the cart I have the following:
- Steeda bumpsteer kit (been needing that)
- Flaming River solid steering shaft (replaces the rag joint)
- 12" 175lb coilover kit for the front (UPR tho?)
- Team Z K-member and Control Arms
- Max Motorsports panhard bar

This is all in phases... TBH I just need to get the bumpsteer kit and steering shaft, but then my ADD kicked in and... $$$$ later, I'm asking for advice lol I figure the bumpsteer and steering thing I need and regardless of K-member. Coilover will be needed eventually if I do K-member swap anyway... (assuming I don't pull the trigger on everything).

My notch is getting aluminum heads to remove some weight up front too.

Thanks!

My suggestion is going to be a fair bit off from the parts you've already got / are looking to purchase.

FRONT

Bilstein HD struts
MM coil over conversion kit (will not only improve handling but much improved ride as well)
275lb springs (could go 325lb for more handling on track OR if able to move to Koni dbl adj, can go 350 with even better ride / handling)
MM CC plates (must have part with coil overs)
MM steering shaft
MM alum rack bushings (do not make noise as some claim)
MM lower arms (poly or delrin, both stand up well)
K member, stock will work with the above but yes MM K member is the best choice (if budget will allow)
Poly bushings for stock sway bar plus MM end links
MM STB brace
MM K member brace
Steeda SFCs (unless you already have)

REAR

Upper and lower arms you have are mint.
Springs, MM road and track + Bilsteins.
If you can afford Bilsteins plus coil over conversion even better but not an absolute must have.
Next mod out back, MM panhard. This is a game changer for both street and track use, yes it works that well. From there a torque arm would take traction n performance to an entirely other level.

Can tell you with 100% certainty, would be pleased beyond words with the above.

[RedSN]

^^^100% agree with the above.

Smaller list if you don’t have the budget:

MM caster/camber plates
MM coil over kit + Bilstein HD struts
MM lower control arms
MM steering shaft

[ZR]

^ Scaled down version would be a great option II just add Alum rack bushings plus sway bar bushings n end links.

[stangstevers]

Thanks guys, what I don't appreciate with the MM K-member is that it moves my wheels forward by an inch??? I don't think my 87 fenders will enjoy that very much.

One last thing I need to measure is make sure coilovers won't cause interference with my wheels. I think I have enough gap between the wheels and the shock right now, not sure how much wider a coilover will be? How much clearance do I need? If I only have 1/2" or 3/8", will I need to run spacers? Thanks

Absolute worst case for now, is MM caster/camber plates (I guess I can't re-use my hotchkis ones?), MM coilover setup and new shocks along with the steering rack bushings, steering shaft and bumpsteer kit. That should be my minimum for this year and I'd have all the parts I need if I swap to a tubular K-member if I pull the trigger on it later. :D

[ZR]

You can retain stock wheel base with the correct arms.
Stock K member with MM arms is a dramatic upgrade.

[stangstevers]

You can retain stock wheel base with the correct arms.
Stock K member with MM arms is a dramatic upgrade.

I guess I need to do some more reading lol... If I can do this in stages... buy the MM control arms now so I can install an MM K-member later?

[ZR]

If you do it now with stock K member and MM arms, they would not be the right ones to use with the MM K member. No worries though, used MM arms would sell like hot cakes, you never ever ever see them used.
If it was mine / budget would not allow MM K member, do the above on your stock one and buy the panhard before you came back to the K member.

[Slick_89_Hatch]

I have a very similiar set up to the recommended front set up by Rick, the car is night and day, once these items were installed it was the first time in 15 years of owning the car that it was a pleasure to drive at any speed, around corners and over shitty roads. I was amazed with the results. Aside from brakes, best $$ spent on the car. If I ever build another Fox, it's brakes first, then suspension, then motor.

[hsousa88]

Good reading here for me.

I'll be looking to do some front end suspension next year... Dunno if I want to replace my frame rails to allow a MM k member or not.

Fuckin money.

[ZR]

Like I said above, MM front arms n the rest is an epic upgrade.

[Slick_89_Hatch]

Good reading here for me.

I'll be looking to do some front end suspension next year... Dunno if I want to replace my frame rails to allow a MM k member or not.

Fuckin money.

Is there an issue with your rails? MM K member is bolt in. But the arms only are a nice upgrade but you need to go coilover.

[ZR]

It would be an ordeal to bolt new K member in there, yes previous rust repair but fine with stocker.

[fast Ed]

If I ever build another Fox, it's brakes first, then suspension, then motor.

Way back when before all this fancy stuff was available, the first upgrades I did on my 87 LX from new were FMS springs with a set of adjustable Konis, then the rear disc brakes. With that plus chassis bracing, and some minor bolt-ons for a bit more HP along with decent wheels & tires, the car was the most fun that it ever was to drive on street and track. Quick enough, and very reliable.


cheers
Ed

[hsousa88]

Is there an issue with your rails? MM K member is bolt in. But the arms only are a nice upgrade but you need to go coilover.

Yep they were rusty. Almost looks factory with Ricks nice work.


It would be an ordeal to bolt new K member in there, yes previous rust repair but fine with stocker.

That bad eh? I imagined it wouldn’t be easy or cheap. I guess it’s time to start looking for a clean coupe shell [emoji5]

[ZR]

^ Your good as is, just add arms n coil overs = golden.

[hsousa88]

^ Your good as is, just add arms n coil overs = golden.

Good to hear.

But that MM k member looks damn sexy [emoji7]

[ZR]

Love looking at mine on the hoist, performs pretty damm cool as well.

[Mustang4]

On my 91 Fox I've got everything Rick mentioned except I have Bilstein HD and not coilovers no torque arm and using stock K-member with Ford Racing Lower control arms and car handles and rides great on the street, really flat on ramps and tight turns. Track day will be the real test but I'm sure I will have a blast.

[stangstevers]

I think I should reinforce the strut tower... I wonder how much more weight is being loaded on that than it was designed for? Would love to talk to RedSN about that lol

I figure the load is shared between the bottom of the rail and the shock tower with a coilover. So it would cause more of a sheering force on the sheetmetal around the firewall? I figure a MM strut tower brace may help a bit in any extra deflection or side to side movement.

Or am I overthinking again?

[ZR]

A STB + K member brace (MM K member comes with lower brace) and your more than good to go.

[stangstevers]

So now I'm mildly confused about the springs...

My car is lowered (sportlines and no rubber insulators right now)... so a 12" spring and 275 rate won't work - it will sit too high? The 10" setup is nuts, now I need to spend $500USD on struts? I was hoping for the 12" 275's on my KYB's... My fox is light, it's a no-option car with aluminum heads.

Thanks

[ZR]

While the KYB's you have now are a decent option for a low-ish rate convention positioned spring, poor choice for a coil over as they are basically built around being a stock replacement / slight upgrade. Bilsteins are said to be capable of up to 350lb spring but as you go much over 325lb ride quality drops off a fair bit. With the shorter 275lb spring, excellent on and off track ride and performance.
In the same breath, up the ante to double adjustable Koni's, can run a much higher spring rate while retaining a good ride for even better handling. Case in point, former set up in my own car, switched from 275lb (ran 325 for track days) and Bilsteins to Koni dbl adj plus 450lb springs (have to check, might be 475lb). Car is firmer than the 275lb combo but much more compliant vs 325 plus Bilsteins. Combo of 550 rears and MM valved Bilsteins out back produces a firm but nice overall feel and ride with a dramatic increase for track use.
Long and the short of it, pull the trigger on the right shocks n struts and be happy the first time vs spending the money twice.

[fast Ed]

If you don't spend the money for good shocks and struts first, any other suspension upgrades are going to be wasted $$. As Rick said, your KYBs are fine for cruising around with close to stock spring rates, but that's it. Even without coilovers, Bilstein HD or Koni adjustables will make a big difference in how the car works.


cheers
Ed

[stangstevers]

I guess that makes sense... can’t be half pregnant

[ZR]

^ Same but only different. ;)

[ZR]

You might also get lucky and find a pair of gently used factory Bilstein struts off an 03/04 Cobra (rear shocks will not work). While valving is less desirable vs aftermarket Bilsteins, still a good choice if in good shape.

[hsousa88]

Pretty happy with my Bilsteins.. can't wait to go coilovers on all four corners.

What kind of mileage are you guys getting out of Bilsteins before needing replacement? They're nice but not cheap.

[ZR]

Unless accident damaged, failure rate here has been zero.

[fast Ed]

Bilstein and Koni shocks can be sent in for rebuilding / revalving as well if they blow, start leaking, or need the damping rates stepped up.

[stangstevers]

I come back here for a day and spend almost 3 grand lol thanks

[stangstevers]

If it's not a scam, I ordered a pair from the UK that had it in stock (10)... Came to about the same price as Essex... The best deal is SummitRacing but out of stock like everyone else, Bilstein says mid April but they've been saying that since December of last year...

[Mustang4]

I've had my Bilstein shocks on my Fox for about 8 years, only street duty and about 30,000 km and have no issue. They come with a lifetime warranty with some restrictions.

[ZR]

Great product but making a warranty claim is not for the faint of heart.