Any one deal with fleet vehicles, Diesel trucks / cube vans?

[5.4MarkVIII]

Looking at an upgrade for our delivery truck.
Currently running an old chev E3500cube van that runs okay but a site for sore eyes.
Chev 350 16 ft box
Biggest complaint is fuel economy and the box is about 3 inches too short

Looked at some newer ones and they aren’t cheap. About 40k for a year old with a few kms (ex rentals)
Impossible to find wit a Diesel short of going new and dropping $60k

So was looking at something different today.
Izusu NRR

Got a 4cyl Diesel, 20ft box seats three in the cab as opposed to two.
Higher hauling capacity 5 inches taller internal height
Better fuel economy

Little more money used but guys seem to be running them to well over 600,000kms

Talking to the techs at the dealer they say they hardly need to come in for service

Just wondering if we have anyone in the net work here that has driven, or worked on them that can provide any first hand insight

[Ponyryd]

Seen a few through the years and they seem great, I remember doing some maintenance on some and they were super easy to work on. One thing that was weird was the braking and wheel studs on them, iirc the lugs were some crazy thread size and I think they were reverse thread on one side...not a deal breaker, but weird nonetheless.

[ZR]

Key to any of them, service ... service and more service.

[5.4MarkVIII]

Thanks guys.
Seems to be along the lines of what I’ve been reading.

[ZR]

Well worth sitting down n crunching numbers of cost to maintain diesel (especially when they get older / higher miles) vs fuel saved over cheaper to maintain gasser.

[5.4MarkVIII]

Allot of the cube vans I see people selling used gasssers are being sold off around 250000km. Vs the diesels which are being sold off with over 500000

Haven’t determined if that due to trying to get every km out for the money put I or due to less maintence costs so they run them longer.
Ford truck we had hit 250000km. after a hard life of work and just started to need one thing after another.

Chev van is a 2002 only has 156000 and it just seems to always have something going on.

[ZR]

I've got GM fleet gassers north of 600 km plus idle time.

[Ponyryd]

If you aren’t putting on big miles a diesel will be a waste of money in the long run, they’re a lot more to maintain and repair when the time does come, and for something that sees city use it’s a big risk that’s not worth taking imo.
I also cannot stress enough that if you’re getting ANY diesel truck with dpf/egr it NEEDS to be worked regularly, meaning good highway runs, not just piddly stuff.

[5.4MarkVIII]

We are small town rural. Tyipicaly 50k km per year. Not 401 Type highway but most towns we service are 15 to 20 min drives. 90 -100km/h

[Ponyryd]

I’d advise against a modern diesel then. Sadly the older diesels won’t get financing from the bank, so you’re likely stuck with something that is saddled with the emissions parts I’m referring to.
And I’m not talking about check engine lights, I’m talking trucks going into limp mode, or not running at all, there is no playing around with modern emissions stuff......although the diesel would likely happily run forever even at slow speeds if you could delete and tune it, but that’s illegal here.

[ZR]

+1 on the above.

[RAT ATK]

My friend with a a plumbing business had at least 3 or 4 Isuzu diesels, maybe more. I know he still has at least 1 still because I saw it in the shop the other week. I know he hates them and is phasing them out due to reliability issues and expensive repairs.
I should be seeing him in the next week or so. I can ask him for more details and what direction they have been moving.

[1986stangfan]

I had a gasoline E350 Bubble cube van for 6 years. It was amazing as a work vehicle. The only reason I sold it is because i downsized my business

[IanGTCS]

I work with a fair number of landscapers, many of whom are now running the smaller Isuzu or Hino trucks as replacements for the old Top Kicks. Biggest complaint they have is lack of power for hauling heavy material and towing. Sure, they are rated for it it but they aren't fun on hills. I'd guess that appliances are a lot more bulk than weight so that wouldn't be a problem. Most people I talk to seem to like them, and most say that they are nice and easy to drive around the city due to the tight turning circle.

[5.4MarkVIII]

That was a definite plus.
Thing is 5 feet longer than the current check and would drive circles around it. visability is great as well

[Laffs]

I’d advise against a modern diesel then. Sadly the older diesels won’t get financing from the bank, so you’re likely stuck with something that is saddled with the emissions parts I’m referring to.
And I’m not talking about check engine lights, I’m talking trucks going into limp mode, or not running at all, there is no playing around with modern emissions stuff......although the diesel would likely happily run forever even at slow speeds if you could delete and tune it, but that’s illegal here.

2006 is around the year DPF and shit started showing up, and ruining everything.

[5.4MarkVIII]

So I have this friend who lives in an area of ontario that was never phased into the drive clean program. Which means when a car is purchased it needs the ETest. But after that dosnt need to get cars tested.

Would it be possible to bypass a dpf system?
Or would this be caught on a yearly comercial safety inspection?

[Ponyryd]

Emissions isn’t part of commercial safety. So you could delete and tune it yes, keeping in mind that MOE and MTO don’t take these things lightly.

[bluetoy]

Emissions are supposed to be inspected for annual safety. No one checks them though. There are plenty and I do mean plenty of trucks running around with dpf deletes. I have had trucks with DPF and they work seamlessly and so far flawlessly. It's all the other stuff that gives trouble. EGR mostly. The worst thing they ever did was put a switch in the dash to disable regeneration. Truck drivers are barely smart enough to operate a truck (me included) they certainly should not be in control of the emission system. That switch causes more trouble than anything. I have always never touched it and have never had a problem. There are new laws coming though that will make trucks with deleted emission stuff have to reinstall it all or face even heavier fines than there are now. Inspectors will be looking for these trucks. A wisp of black smoke is a dead giveaway that you are deleted. If you are in the GTA I would not remove or disable anything emission related, also if you travel where there are scales or frequent DOT inspectors. The inspectors down there are much tougher than around here. That said DPF has been around since 07. EGR has been around for a few years longer. They pretty much have it figured out. They are still not problem free. Complete service history is a must. If you have a choice try to avoid trucks with DEF fluid. Just because it is another system to maintain and repair. That will mean likely pre 2011. DPF filters are expensive to replace. they are not maintenance free. They require cleaning at specified intervals. Following mfg maintenance schedules and specs are a must for DPF and EGR equipped trucks. Do your homework and be hyper vigilant with checking maintenance records. There are tons of horror stories out there but remember that no one comes on the internet to say how happy they are with there truck. Oh and Isuzu is partners with GM building the duramax found in GM trucks.

Keep in mind that currently diesel fuel is more expensive than gas and Diesel maintenance costs are much higher. Oil changes that cost $200 or more compared to 50 bucks for a gasser for example. Well cared for will give you a long and happy road though.

[5.4MarkVIII]

What’s everyone’s take of former rentals?
Would be safe to assume that rentals would get all their services done as they should since they are tyipicaly fleet maintained (some of the truck rental guys have all their own service centres.)


Thanks for all the input guys. Want to make an educated decision.

Biggest issue I’m finding is we find the 16 ft chev E3500 we have bairly big enough. (Too low a ceiling height for some fridges when you factor in tilt angle on a cart.)

But to get into a bigger size it’s all Diesel. Guy at the Carrier Center said that Izusu makes a 20ft gasser but they are impossible to come across short of factory order and dropping over 100gs.

[Ponyryd]

I’d have no problem with a former rental.

[RAT ATK]

Talked to my friend about his trucks. Had 4 Isuzu cab overs. Still trying to sell the last one. Expensive parts, sometimes hard to get. Tied to the dealer for too many things. I didn’t ask him to explain this, but he also said that they weren’t designed for our climate.
He is currently running GMC cutaway vans. Says his next move will be into something like the Ford Transit.

[Laffs]

Talked to my friend about his trucks. Had 4 Isuzu cab overs. Still trying to sell the last one. Expensive parts, sometimes hard to get. Tied to the dealer for too many things. I didn’t ask him to explain this, but he also said that they weren’t designed for our climate.
He is currently running GMC cutaway vans. Says his next move will be into something like the Ford Transit.

A high roof transit with the standard 3.7 V6 would probably be a nice reliable alternative to a giant diesel cube that can still transport fairly large item enclosed.

[5.4MarkVIII]

Looked at them and they aren’t big enough for what we need.

Wonder what he ment by not designed for our climate.
I mean it was crap in the snow but that’s to be expected empty and with the highway tires that were on it. Decent set of tires should help that.

[RAT ATK]

I am sure that it was related to reliability, not traction.

[Laffs]

FWIW We have two five two cubes which are International 4300 series as well as 3 GMC cutaway van cubes all circa 2010ish. The Internationals are Navistar diesels, the GM's are....fuck I don't even know.....gas so some LS variant. The GMC cubes start and run with no issues, most I hear is alignment/tire problems, the Internationals start and run fine IF you remember to keep them plugged in in the cold (for some reason this is problematic) but run great up until you have EGR and DPF issues at which point bend over and be ready to receive it.

Unless you are PILING the miles on these things or have really heavy loads, stick with the gassers. Between the cost of maintenance and initial purchase premium you're not really seeing savings until somewhere near 200k kms at last I calculated.

[5.4MarkVIII]

We have a cut away now
Can’t find a gasser with the interior height I need

That’s why I was looking at the izusu. It’s that or into an international or something similar.
But to go that big can’t just run a G licence and then would have to get a cvor.

[Ponyryd]

FWIW We have two five two cubes which are International 4300 series as well as 3 GMC cutaway van cubes all circa 2010ish. The Internationals are Navistar diesels, the GM's are....fuck I don't even know.....gas so some LS variant. The GMC cubes start and run with no issues, most I hear is alignment/tire problems, the Internationals start and run fine IF you remember to keep them plugged in in the cold (for some reason this is problematic) but run great up until you have EGR and DPF issues at which point bend over and be ready to receive it.

Unless you are PILING the miles on these things or have really heavy loads, stick with the gassers. Between the cost of maintenance and initial purchase premium you're not really seeing savings until somewhere near 200k kms at last I calculated.

They need to be plugged in because they’re a diesel. Not sure about the newer ones but older internationals ran glow plugs, which kinda work in the cold, but not so much in Canada Cold, hence the need to plug in. Seems everything needs to be plugged in when it’s cold except those with a grid heater (Cummins/I believe Ecodoesels), but it’s still a good idea to plug them in.
LS are a great engine, even in a big cube van, just don’t expect any power from them when loaded.

[5.4MarkVIII]

Heck I had an old crown Vic that wouldn’t start in the winter if the block heater wasn’t plugged in.

Do the newer diesels not run glow plugs anymore? They just rely on wing plugged in?

[Laffs]

They need to be plugged in because they’re a diesel. Not sure about the newer ones but older internationals ran glow plugs, which kinda work in the cold, but not so much in Canada Cold, hence the need to plug in. Seems everything needs to be plugged in when it’s cold except those with a grid heater (Cummins/I believe Ecodoesels), but it’s still a good idea to plug them in.
LS are a great engine, even in a big cube van, just don’t expect any power from them when loaded.

I know why they need to be plugged in, it's just apparently most members of the workforce give 0 fucks in that regard. I said it because I've heard OP complain about his staff previously, I imagine he would have similar issues.

[5.4MarkVIII]

I know why they need to be plugged in, it's just apparently most members of the workforce give 0 fucks in that regard. I said it because I've heard OP complain about his staff previously, I imagine he would have similar issues.

Some days it feels like a revolving door of “I don’t give a shit”.
Lol

[Ponyryd]

Heck I had an old crown Vic that wouldn’t start in the winter if the block heater wasn’t plugged in.

Do the newer diesels not run glow plugs anymore? They just rely on wing plugged in?

Some still run glow plugs, some run an intake heater, which is a thick grid that heats the air coming in the engine, the grids work very well, but the trucks should still be plugged in. High-compression engines, thick fuel, thick oil, low cranking rpm, gotta give them a fighting chance, it helps a lot.

[5.4MarkVIII]

Feeling supper happy about our decision right now.

Based on the interior height we need the Isuzu was the only option without getting into air breaks or dropping 100gs

Place in London has one with only 110000kms. Gently used

Dropped 20 grand down and financed the rest. Waited a week for them to have it ready. Drove an hour and a half to pick it up. Drove great all the way home until I backed it into the parking spot when the dash lit up with warning lights.

Drove it all the way back next day
Waited over a week for them to fix it, said it was a bad sensor. They called me yesterday and said it was all fixed up.

Drove all the way back down today got the key fired it up was letting it idle to warm up. After about 2 min of idle.
Check engine light came back on and it went into limp mode

Didn’t even get out of the parking lot

When back into the service department and he said well my Isuzu guy is not around till Monday so we will call you.

...........

Hope it’s not a sign of things to come.

[Ponyryd]

Jeez man that sucks, hopefully they can get it sorted.

[ZR]

Stings just that much harder when you have trouble from pretty much mile one, hang in, they'll get it sorted.

[Laffs]

Is it emissions related? Have you tried forcing a regen?

[5.4MarkVIII]

Is it emissions related? Have you tried forcing a regen?

Original codes were emmisons related, exhaust warning Def fault light and a check engine light.
Tried to force a regen but it said regen not required. They pulled the codes and said the level sensor for the def tank was faulty.
They replaced it and said every thing was good to go.

Started today fine. But ran for couple min then this time only throwing the check engine light. Followed 30 seconds later by the limp mode light.

Hopefully they just forgot to hook something up or something simple like that.