Opinions wanted on a car sale gone bad

[Clutt gt]

Ok here's the scoop
A guy I know had a mid 90's 6 banger Camaro for sale was asking $2500 the car did have brand new snow tires and looked ok for a beater.
He took the car to a mechanic that told him it would need at least $500 worth of exhaust work on a quick glance.
He was not being paid for a safety so no he didn't get right into it. Seller is a school teacher that knows nothing about cars at all.
Seller had someone interested so he dropped the price to $2000 as is.
They negotiated and made a deal on $1800 as is.
Buyer transferred the car into his name and deal is complete.

Nope
6 weeks later seller gets a letter in the mail from a paralegal stating he sold this guy a car that needed more work than anyone reasonably would do to safety a car.
Suing for get this
$1800 for the car
$300 for the mechanics bill to go over the car and deem it not worth fixing
$234 The taxes paid to put the car in his name
$500 for the frustration of the whole ordeal

So $2834 total

Never once did he contact seller to complain just straight to legal action.

So they had the first meeting with a judge
The judge asked them both to throw out an offer and that because both parties could not provide the bill of sale paperwork for car and all they had was some email traffic that it would likely settle at 15% of the suit.

So seller offers $425 and go away
Buyer says nope I want $2000 min or it goes to court

So off they go to court.

It's not just buyer beware anymore
Seller better be careful too.

[bluetoy]

No paperwork = trouble. I always write 2 bills of sale and get signatures on both of them.

[Clutt gt]

Ya judge said if bill of sale stated unfit then he would be clear.
If it stated as is that one could assume it needs little work.
The email had “as is”
But when mto transfers it over they don’t call it “as is” they call it unfit if it hasn’t passed a safety.

[55 HD]

I get the lesson......We need to say unfit for the ROAD.

But who is it to say the car or any car for that matter is not worth fixing / repairing / restoring. Maybe to that one mechanic it is of his opinion but to another it may be well worth fixing. I think this Judge is as green as the seller & buyer both.

JMO

[55 HD]

I'm going to say this one skate boards to work. So maybe NO

[Stephen06GT]

Doesn't any used car sale require a UVIP?

[Clutt gt]

I'm willing to bet that we have all seen a basket case car that most would walk away from and deem it not worth fixing.
Yet some car guy may be in love with it and just have to have it. Spend way over what it's "worth"
How was the seller to know what the intention of the buyer really is.
Maybe if he was to do the work himself it would be worth doing.
Maybe he would do it for the love of.
I'm speculating of course.

I say he transferred it into his name as unfit so it's his end of story

But this just shows it's not the case so wright it clear and concise and don't loose the paper trail

[Ponyryd]

Dumbass buyer never heard of “buyer beware”? I’d tell them to pound salt, take me to court all u want.

[Intmdtr]

yep. F you, you bought it as is....don't come after me 6 weeks later after you have had the car in your possession.

[ZR]

In my eyes, any vehicle you purchase uncertified / unfit / hasn't been inspected by someone you know and trust.............. 110% on you and you only, yes even if it needs several times what it's worth in repairs.

[RedSN]

The judge asked them both to throw out an offer and that because both parties could not provide the bill of sale paperwork for car and all they had was some email traffic that it would likely settle at 15% of the suit.
Here's the real problem. Case has nothing to do with as-is or not.
Had the seller produced a copy of the UVIP with the signature of the buyer and the word "unfit" under vehicle condition it would be an open-and-shut case.


There should be a reminder on the ownership informing owners that they MUST get a UVIP when selling the vehicle and transferring the ownership. So many people have no idea what a UVIP is.

[Quicksilver]

A clear case of entitlement on the part of the purchaser.

[55 HD]

Doesn't any used car sale require a UVIP?

Law says it is the sellers responsibility to obtain a USED VEHICLE INFORMATION PACKAGE. but that can be obtained by anyone with the VIN # @ the MTO office for the $20.00 fee. All you need to sell a used vehicle is a written agreement that is signed by two parties for an agreed amount and condition. Once the payment has been made simply sign the 2 copies (one for each party to keep as a record) and move on with the deal done.

Now the UVIP document needs to be filled out at the MTO when you transfer the vehicle so they can get their share $20,00 of the pie. The only benefit to the UVIP is that you get to see the history of the last 7 owners (I think) that is as far back as they go. And more IMPORTANT you get to see if there are any liens registered against the said vehicle.

SO YES, always take the time to purchase a UVIP when selling a car. But remember they have an expiry date of 30 days.........meaning a lien could be registered against the vehicle that you just purchased if the lender doesn't do their proper checking to see if the borrower using the said vehicle still owns the vehicle. As we all know the Banks never get rid of paper work that they have loaned money out on. I once had my Bank try to add a car I hadn't owned in 7 years to my new loan as security as they lumped together all my stuff on file as security.

So yes paper trails of all deals is very valuable to have when you need to prove what went down.

[RedSN]

The only benefit to the UVIP is that you get to see the history of the last 7 owners (I think) that is as far back as they go. And more IMPORTANT you get to see if there are any liens registered against the said vehicle.
That's not the only benefits. This case clearly illustrates the UVIP also would have been useful as a proper bill of sale and shown that the vehicle was purchased "unfit".
The UVIP also shows you the amount of tax you can expect to pay at the MTO so it isn't a shock when you get there.

There are soooooooo many advantages to both the seller and the buyer in getting the UVIP. It's only $20.

[55 HD]

Thanks Don for correcting and adding to the benefits of the UVIP.

[Quicksilver]

I bought a 73 Volvo 1800ES once but the seller had remorse and so I sold it back, same price 2 weeks later. I still want either an 1800 or an 1800ES

One of my all time favourite cars. Almost bought one a decade ago, but was 2 hours too late.

[ZR]

You change favorites Steve??

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/12/20/automobiles/20AVANTI-image5/20AVANTI-image5-facebookJumbo.jpg

[Quicksilver]

You change favorites Steve??

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/12/20/automobiles/20AVANTI-image5/20AVANTI-image5-facebookJumbo.jpg

ONE of my all time favourites.
#1 Avanti. #2 65 Buick Riviera. #3 Volvo P1800 (the Saint's car). #4 65 Mustang. # 5 '65 AC Cobra 427.

And a few others that are a little further down the list
73 Ferrari Daytona
63 T-bird
55-56 Chevy (not 57)
56 Buick
68 Cougar

[Quicksilver]

about 14 years ago I bought a 1988 Mustang hatch 4 cylinder for $400. I took it to my mechanic but it turned out to need a LOT of work. The seller graciously took it back and only charged me $100. It was purchased as is and I knew it needed work. Only not so much.
Just seems like common sense. You buy a used car for $1800, you would expect some work needs to be done. If you are looking for perfection you either go up the scale on price or you buy new.