Avro Arrow models search.

[ZR]

Sixty years after nine Avro Arrow free flight models went missing in Lake Ontario, a high-tech, all-Canadian search is under way for their recovery.
The Arrow Recovery Project, funded by private sponsors and corporate funding with start up costs between $500,000 and $1,000,000, was announced Friday by John Burzynski, the president and CEO of Osisko Mining Inc. and head of OEX Recovery Group Inc., which is leading the expedition.
“It’s a fascinating topic, it’s fascinating subject matter,” said Burzynkski, a geologist dressed in an olive green flightsuit, like many others, in a packed room at the Royal Canadian Military Institute.
The Avro Arrow models, one-eighth the size of the jet at about three metres long with a two metre wingspan, were launched with booster rockets between 1955-57 from Point Petre in Prince Edward County, east of Toronto, to test the flight design before the CF-105 Arrow was produced.
When the Canadian jet fighter program was abruptly cancelled in 1959, over 30,000 people lost their jobs and all Avro Arrow-related material was ordered destroyed, including six completed jet fighters.
All that remains are the free flight test models at the bottom of Lake Ontario.
“It goes to the heart of the Canadian soul in terms of what happened to the program,” said Burzynski to those gathered. “There were so many people involved with it.”
There have been previous privately funded missions, but the driving forces behind this expedition think they will be successful.
“We think they’re much closer to shore than previous searches have ever thought,” said Burzynski. “They were searching kilometres and kilometres out in the lake. We think they’re within sort of a three to four kilometre radius.”
Burzynkski said the recovery effort has been in the works for the last year-and-a-half and once the expedition got an exclusive permit to carry out “marine archaeological fieldwork” from Ontario’s Ministry of Tourism, Culture, and Sport, it was game time.
The first order of business starting next week will be to map out 64-square-kilometres of lake floor from where the original models were launched.
That should take between two weeks to a month and then they’ll investigate any promising sites before sending divers down for a closer look.
“We’re going to be reviewing all this sonar imagery, we’re also going to be enlisting the archaeologists as well to say, ‘Hey does this look like a plane? Does this look like a booster rocket?’” said David Shea, the vice-president of engineering for Kracken Sonar Inc., who will use their high-definition, military-grade sonar for the recovery effort.
A documentary crew is also filming the entire expedition.
Both Burzynkski and Shea are optimistic they will find the flight models in whatever shape they are in given it has been 60 years.
The ultimate goal is to house them at the Canada Aviation and Space Museum in Ottawa and the National Air Force Museum of Canada in Trenton.

[ZR]

For six years, taxpayers dreamed of our military getting what some still believe was a top made-in-Canada fighter plane.
Others consider the cancelled Arrow project a costly nightmare.
A.V. Roe Canada Ltd. developed the delta-wing aircraft at present-day Pearson International Airport.
The Liberal government of Prime Minister Louis St. Laurent gave the green light in 1953 to equip the Royal Canadian Air Force with interceptors capable of challenging invading Soviet bombers.
Five Arrows were ordered in 1955 and the $27-million budget soared to $260 million.
The first one was shown publicly on Oct. 4, 1957. On March 25, 1958, chief pilot Janusz Zurakowski took RL-201 on its inaugural flight.
“The CF-105 Arrow was a technical masterpiece at the forefront of aviation engineering,” the Canadian Aviation and Space Museum in Ottawa notes.
Officials in the capital, however, came to believe the Soviet bomber threat “was diminishing and air defence could be better handled by unmanned Bomarc missiles.”
Theories persist about American power-brokers pressuring the feds.
On “Black Friday” — Feb. 20, 1959 — then-Progressive Conservative prime
minister John Diefenbaker announced the dream’s demise.
Everything was ordered scrapped, including turbo-jet engines designed by a Malton firm but never reportedly fitted onto an Arrow.
More than 14,000 jobs were eliminated, but many of Avro’s soon-recruited aerospace engineers helped the new National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) and its U.S. contractors launch astronauts into space.
At the Canadian Aviation and Space Museum, the nose and cockpit of a nearly-completed RL-206 is the largest-known Arrow relic.
Avro folded in 1962, 10 years before Canada retired its imported Bomarcs.
New Canadian- and U.S.-built fighters each cost about the same, or much more, than an Arrow.

[ZR]

http://www.avro-arrow.org/images/sedgar/3arrows.jpg

[RedSN]

from Point Petre in Prince Edward County
I was interested in this story before, but even more interested since buying a cottage 10 km from Point Petre this summer. Another interesting site right next to the test launch site is the Oranda Ring where they used to test the engines.

https://ottawarewind.com/2013/12/29/the-ring-of-orenda/

[ZR]

OMG that is cool.

https://ottawow.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/img_9585.jpg?w=620&h=830

[Stephen06GT]

I really hope they find one of them.

[Rino]

were they wood,fiberglass or metalic?

[ZR]

Canadian govt could not have fudged this entire thing up any harder except if perhaps Kathleen was there to help em.

[Stephen06GT]

Canadian govt could not have fudged this entire thing up any harder except if perhaps Kathleen was there to help em.

Unfortunately we will probably never know the truth behind this story. I typed this as I wear my Avro Arrow limited watch.

[Hutch]

Canadian govt could not have fudged this entire thing up any harder except if perhaps Kathleen was there to help em.

Lol!!!!

[SVOMACH1]

My Father told me stories about these planes from when he worked at the Toronto Airport for TCA in the 50s.

[RedSN]

some cool video of the free flight model launches here:
http://www.avroarrow.org/FFM/model.html

[RedSN]

were they wood,fiberglass or metalic?
http://www.avroarrow.org/images/Testmodimages/FIGURE%2034%20-%20400%20DPI%20BW.jpg


In order to meet an aggressive delivery deadline, Avro Canada adopted what is known as the Cook-Craigie production plan, which eliminates the prototype phase of development. Instead, the company focused on extensive preliminary research and model-testing. Part of this process involved the construction of eleven instrumented stainless-steel free-flight models. Nine of these were mounted on rocket boosters, and launched into Lake Ontario from a military range at Point Petre.
Should be well preserved.

[Laffs]

My grandfather worked at Orenda engines/Avro on the Arrow. I have so many stories from him about that project, but he can only say a bit at time before getting pretty pissed about the way the whole thing ended up.

FWIW he spent 30 years of his life after in engineering at Ford specifically on small block 302/351 stuff, so perhaps there's some of the secret in what makes them such great motors there.

[Laffs]

Most of them are better to be told than typed, some related to how tight they were asked to make certain tolerances, some about how they could tell they were sort of in uncharted waters/pushing technological envelope and the problems they'd encounter, how abruptly it all came to a stop.

[The Newmare]

my Dad worked on the cockpits of those planes, was born in June 59 as he was getting laid off due to it being scrapped.

[Red Reaper]

My father was head of sheet metal fabrication when the arrow was being built


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ZR]

A mission to find nine models of the Avro Arrow — an advanced Canadian jet fighter that was controversially cancelled in 1959 — began Friday with a submarine scouring the waters of Lake Ontario in search of the free-flight prototypes.
The models were launched from a military base in the 1950s as part of the development of the Avro Arrow, the first and only supersonic interceptor built by the Canadian military in the 1950s to counter potential Soviet bomber attacks in North America’s Arctic.
If the models are recovered, they will find new homes at the Canada Aviation and Space Museum in Ottawa and the National Air Force Museum of Canada in Trenton, Ont.
The expedition, dubbed Raise the Arrow, is being led by John Burzynski, head of OEX Recovery Group Inc., which created the search-and-recovery project as part of Canada 150 celebrations and to coincide with next year’s 60th anniversary of Avro Arrow’s first test flight.
A programmable submarine supplied by Kraken Sonar Inc. spent eight hours Friday surveying an area just off Point Petre in Ontario’s Prince Edward County where it’s believed the missing free-flight prototypes were launched from a military base in the 1950s.
Burzynski said he came up with the project after following news reports of Kraken’s involvement in recovering one of the ships belonging to the Franklin Expedition of 1845.
David Shea, Kraken’s vice-president of engineering, was part of the five-person crew, following the submarine on a boat to make sure no one navigated over it.
The submarine is equipped with a military-grade sonar, which records acoustic data at a range of 300 metres and turns it into a high-resolution acoustic image, Shea told The Canadian Press in an interview from the boat on Friday.
They have 64 square kilometres to cover and Burzynski said it’s likely the models will be among a lot of debris, which could include shipwrecks from the 1700s and 1800s and two planes that crashed in 1945 and 1960.
The search is expected to take two weeks, but could be extended to a month due to weather or other factors.
If the models are located, project archaeologist Scarlett Janusas said she will send some divers down to check on the integrity of the prototypes.
“I hope that they will be in one piece, but it’s unlikely,” she said while on site at Point Petre.
“We have to make sure that the structures are totally supported as we are bringing them out of the water, so they don’t collapse on themselves,” Janusas said.
She added that they will keep the models submerged until they first remove the biomass, which includes organic material and zebra muscles, so they can actually see the surface of the prototypes.
“It doesn’t take much time for zebra muscles to take over something and obscure its appearance to the point that it looks like a rock,” she said, noting it helps that they know the exact dimensions of the models, which are an eighth of the size of the full CF-105 Arrow.
Richard Mayne, director of Royal Canadian Air Force History and Heritage, which provided research for the project, says the Arrow left many Canadians with a sense of “what if” when the all-Canadian aircraft program was shut down by the federal government.
“Would Canada still be competing in modern fighter design of our own aircraft today?” Mayne said. “We were part of an elite club of nations that were building top-of-the-line fighters.”
The Canada Aviation and Space Museum in Ottawa already houses a nose section and two wingtips, but much of the Avro Arrow didn’t survive.
“The Avro Arrow is a reminder of what Canadians are capable of building,” Burzynski said.

[RedSN]

They have 64 square kilometres to cover and Burzynski said it’s likely the models will be among a lot of debris, which could include shipwrecks from the 1700s and 1800s and two planes that crashed in 1945 and 1960.
Mind blown if they find MH370

[Stephen06GT]

CTV is reporting that the expedition team has located one of the test models. Photos and video to be released tomorrow.

[ZR]

Epic cool.

[RedSN]

>... Photos and video to be released tomorrow.
:waiting:

[Scrape]

That was a cool plane back in the day. It definitely will be interesting to see the test model.

[RedSN]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSt1kxwI3RYmSuKlWuOe3Yw1OF_giDng 2WlGsjtNBZpvvMEXQX1

[Rino]

cool. They use to have the full scale model at downsview .I would see it ,when I went to the Hangar to play soccer.

[RedSN]

https://i.cbc.ca/1.4280927.1504886514!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_620/avro-arrow.jpg

An image of one of the models found at the bottom of Lake Ontario by the Raise the Arrow expedition. The model is covered in zebra mussels, and there are plans to raise it from the water. (Raise the Arrow Expedition)


In addition, the team announced what comes as a surprise to many Arrow enthusiasts — "there are more jets out there than originally thought," said John Burzynski, the expedition leader. He called the finding a "discovery within a discovery" since "this was a secret program that no one knew was going on when it was going on, unfortunately a lot of the records are partial." The additional models were described as very early iterations which were used as "test tracking vehicles." They may not have had all the characteristics of the Avro Arrow, as they were mainly used to test equipment, said Dr. Richard Mayne, a historian with the Royal Canadian Air Force.

[RedSN]

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21016025_1429931767103862_5309742658915704854_o.jp g?oh=680dd739fc2cf622f3568ea4d7585f3b&oe=5A5E51B6
This is one of the "pre" test models used for the test tracking, not one of the 9 test models they are looking for.

[RedSN]

https://imgur.com/NWFDC1q.gif

Still nothing!?

[RedSN]

The “Raise the Arrow” team announced Monday that the first historic relic of the Avro Arrow free-flight program has been recovered.

https://postmediaottawacitizen2.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/screen-shot-2018-08-20-at-4-48-52-pm.png?w=459&h=846


https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/first-avro-arrow-free-flight-model-recovered-from-lake-ontario

[Raider]

So cool. Surprised their isn't more damage from impact.

[RedSN]

I haven’t heard any updates on the search, but I finally made the trek out to the Orenda Test Ring. After a 40 minute bike ride I reached the Military Aeronautical Communications System (MACS) Transmitter Site at Point Petre.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Cottage/i-LXH8mPJ/0/947f628c/L/438E531A-D032-44F4-8692-BB1CD8762F3D-L.jpg

Across the road from the gated entrance is a dirt road. After a short ride down the road I ditched my bike and headed through the brush. I’m sure glad I had my phone to guide me because it would have been very difficult to find. I finally found the ring...

https://photos.smugmug.com/Cottage/i-FRTHQvj/0/d6833950/L/A66CFEF4-C2DC-4853-9E25-658A1D2A7393-L.jpg

More scratches through the thick brush I got to the centre...

https://photos.smugmug.com/Cottage/i-xnCsp45/0/7aca5452/XL/C144C0DC-B8F1-4DEF-8287-F7243BB88BD5-XL.jpg

Can’t get to the concrete pad where they launched the Nike missiles as it’s on the base, but I walked along the shoreline a bit. Here’s where the Arrow models went into the lake...

https://photos.smugmug.com/Cottage/i-QGDJPfN/0/d07b58b3/L/0D1BFD9A-951A-4A42-8211-8C328BACB7FB-L.jpg

edit: search is suppose to continue this year, but I assume COVID-19 has put it on the back burner.
https://copanational.org/en/2020/01/30/raise-the-arrow/

The hunt for free-flight models of the legendary AVRO Arrow by the OEX Recovery Group is on again, with an underwater search planned for late spring. The search area will be the bottom of Lake Ontario, in the waters off Prince Edward County’s Point Petre, where flight-testing of scale models of the Arrow took place in the mid-1950s.

[fast Ed]

Some success on this search:


https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/after-decades-of-failed-searches-the-holy-grail-of-avro-arrow-artifacts-uncovered-at-the-bottom-of-lake-ontario

[ZR]

Heck yes.

[Old Fart]

https://i.postimg.cc/rp1SZ628/12989006-66286118.jpg

[Rino]

:highfive:

[RedSN]

Three years after they found the DTV, in mid-September 2020, they finally made headway. A sonar image from the lakebed matched the blueprints for the test model’s fuselage. The only problem was that it was in pieces.

https://smartcdn.prod.postmedia.digital/nationalpost/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/FFM-Schematic.jpg?quality=100&strip=all&w=564

https://smartcdn.prod.postmedia.digital/nationalpost/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Raise-the-Arrow-Fuselage.jpg?quality=100&strip=all&w=564

Would be neat to build a full scale model of the model from those blueprints.

[Rino]

I would buy it

[fast Ed]

https://smartcdn.prod.postmedia.digital/nationalpost/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/FFM-Schematic.jpg?quality=100&strip=all&w=564

https://smartcdn.prod.postmedia.digital/nationalpost/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Raise-the-Arrow-Fuselage.jpg?quality=100&strip=all&w=564

Would be neat to build a full scale model of the model from those blueprints.

You've got all winter Don, get going! Right after you do the H/C/I/ swap on the red car. :stickpoke:

[RedSN]

If you can acquire a Nike booster from Keystone for me, I’ll build the model.