Intercooler Pumps & Heat Exchangers

[KRS]

This topic came up in "05 GT Monster 3 Valve Build" thread, so instead of continuing to hijack that thread I decided to start a new one.

I'm currently running a Pierburg (13/14 GT500) intercooler pump on my 2011, along with a VMP twin fan heat exchanger.

Prior to installing this my car would lose substantial power in hot weather, this was very noticeable on the street. Since the upgrade there is a noticeable improvement, I didn't measure my IAT's before and after the upgrade.

[ZR]

Hot weather under what conditions (cruising / caught in traffic / track use)?

[KRS]

Hot weather when in boost, it was very noticeable under all conditions. If you drove the car on the street for 15 minutes when it was 80 degrees out and then got into boost, it felt like the supercharger wasn't there. The car has a pulley (2.67) and tune from Sean Hyland, so it's making a few extra pounds of boost.

[KRS]

Here's some intercooler pump info, the Department of Boost gets credit for the numbers. The tests that I'm posting were run with .75" hose and a GT500 intercooler. There is lots of test info on their site using various pumps and larger hose sizes.

Bosch Pump - 5.1 gpm (07-12 GT500, most common pump)

Pierburg Pump - 8.5 gpm (13/14 GT500)

Meziere 55 - 5.2 gpm

Meziere 20 - 4.25 gpm

[TheMustangShow]

Hot weather when in boost, it was very noticeable under all conditions. If you drove the car on the street for 15 minutes when it was 80 degrees out and then got into boost, it felt like the supercharger wasn't there. The car has a pulley (2.67) and tune from Sean Hyland, so it's making a few extra pounds of boost.

Seems like more than a I/C pump problem...especially with just a pulleyed stock blower.
The stock Bosch should be more than adequate under those street conditions.

[ZR]

Typically, first indication of a weak / failing Bosch pump, either quitting all together or intermittently shut off and coming back on (more than one Cobra has experienced intercooler pump problems at our track days). I consider them a wear item and suggest replacing every few years regardless of how it seems to be working. Since they can be found inexpensively, not a huge price to pay for reliability. Funny thing about them, fail more commonly on cars with few miles vs high milers where you know they've seen lots of use. It's said the main culprit is debris / crud build up in side the impeller, with the replacement cost so low I've never cared enough to both taking one apart to check.
Coming back to how much flow is really needed, in my case, even making big power for an extended period of time, Bosch pump is more than up to the task.
I'd love to see a Shelby on the track running a stock pump while monitoring both actual engine temp and IATs to see which is the real culprit. Very possible the cooling system is running far closer to the line vs what the stock temp gauge is telling. If thats indeed true, little wonder the intercooler system would have trouble keeping IATs in check when pushed xtra hard.

[KRS]

Some heat exchanger pics for comparrison; 2011/12 versus 2013/14.

[ZR]

Hot weather when in boost, it was very noticeable under all conditions. If you drove the car on the street for 15 minutes when it was 80 degrees out and then got into boost, it felt like the supercharger wasn't there. The car has a pulley (2.67) and tune from Sean Hyland, so it's making a few extra pounds of boost.

The fact it was happening in such short order reinforces my though the pump must have had an issue. Once IAT's reach a certain level, computer starts to pull timing and adds fuel to help save the engine. As the temp continues up, enough timing pulled that you'd experience a low to no boost situation. Mine would start to drop power between lap 1 and 2 and within another lap would struggle to make marginal boost. As the temp goes up from there, typically the car will start to buck as you even try to tickle it into boost.
With the new Shelby pump + running the bypass, I wonder what the actual flow rate comes in at?

[KRS]

Typically, first indication of a weak / failing Bosch pump, either quitting all together or intermittently shut off and coming back on (more than one Cobra has experienced intercooler pump problems at our track days). I consider them a wear item and suggest replacing every few years regardless of how it seems to be working. Since they can be found inexpensively, not a huge price to pay for reliability. Funny thing about them, fail more commonly on cars with few miles vs high milers where you know they've seen lots of use. It's said the main culprit is debris / crud build up in side the impeller, with the replacement cost so low I've never cared enough to both taking one apart to check.
Coming back to how much flow is really needed, in my case, even making big power for an extended period of time, Bosch pump is more than up to the task.
I'd love to see a Shelby on the track running a stock pump while monitoring both actual engine temp and IATs to see which is the real culprit. Very possible the cooling system is running far closer to the line vs what the stock temp gauge is telling. If thats indeed true, little wonder the intercooler system would have trouble keeping IATs in check when pushed xtra hard.

Every time I checked the degas/coolant bottle there was flow, possibly an intermittent problem. The car does get ran hard occasionally but it's never been on a track. I don't have anyone directly compare with other than what I've read on Shelby forums but there are lots of others with the same complaint.

[KRS]

VMP twin fan double pass versus 13/14 GT500.

[ZR]

Thing I've noticed about Cobras, Lightnings and Shelbys with the same / similar complaint, it's only become an issue as the cars-trucks and pumps got older. Also know of / read about another Shelby where under high extended engine loads, either ECM is shutting the pump off or there is some sort of an electrical glitch. In both cases, never ever does it under any kind of load or condition it see's on the street, race track only. Relay out and a jumper wire in place, problem goes away. So it's either a relay, wiring or ecm trigger issue.
I guess it comes down to, you've got some of the coolest hardware under there Ford / VMP offer + it cured your problem, that's a win on any day.

[KRS]

Thing I've noticed about Cobras, Lightnings and Shelbys with the same / similar complaint, it's only become an issue as the cars-trucks and pumps got older. Also know of / read about another Shelby where under high extended engine loads, either ECM is shutting the pump off or there is some sort of an electrical glitch. In both cases, never ever does it under any kind of load or condition it see's on the street, race track only. Relay out and a jumper wire in place, problem goes away. So it's either a relay, wiring or ecm trigger issue.
I guess it comes down to, you've got some of the coolest hardware under there Ford / VMP offer + it cured your problem, that's a win on any day.

I hope I didn't exaggerate my case, the car had a noticeable power loss in the heat and felt more like driving a coyote than a GT500 (not knocking the coyote). My oldest son who also drives the car noticed the power loss too. I felt there might be something wrong with the pump so I did check it several times and it was circulating. So it just became a good excuse to change some parts. I initially got the VMP exchanger and wasn't happy with the pump relocation bracket and I had also read about the Bosch pump failures. I looked into it a bit further and liked the idea of going with the Pierburg.

[KRS]

Here's the pump mounted to the driver side cylinder head and the degas/coolant tank with the bypass hose. You can see the black clamp on the hose just past where it attaches to the right side of the tank, that's where the restriction is in the hose.

[Uncle Buck]

Currently running a Bosch pump and a dual pass AFCO on my 3V. All these sweet cooling bits in this thread has me thinking about upgrades but my seat of the pants doesn't notice major power drops in the heat. Street days or track days, car seems to pull fine. The only hard number to back this up was 2 Dyno pulls on the same day. One in the morning when it was cool and one in the heat of the day after an hour in traffic. Pulls were 17 hp different.

Given the car is pushing 12 years old, my next cooling dollars will likely go to an upgraded rad or maybe an oil cooler.

[Mrods]

I switched from a Bosch pump to a Pierburg and I fit a 2013/14 GT500 HE. I also added a 170 degree Thermostat. The combo reduced IAT by a consistant 15-20 degrees when it was hot out. Made a very noticable difference in power consistancy. The only downside is, I have no space to add cooling fans. The 2013/14 HE is one big momma and so far I have had zero reliability issues. Going on 2 years now.

[KRS]

I switched from a Bosch pump to a Pierburg and I fit a 2013/14 GT500 HE. I also added a 170 degree Thermostat. The combo reduced IAT by a consistant 15-20 degrees when it was hot out. Made a very noticable difference in power consistancy. The only downside is, I have no space to add cooling fans. The 2013/14 HE is one big momma and so far I have had zero reliability issues. Going on 2 years now.

Sounds familiar - I think I might have sold you the heat exchanger.

[Mrods]

Sounds familiar - I think I might have sold you the heat exchanger.

And you would be right! Great deal. Thx again.